EhDrone
commented
2 years ago I think that the confusing edge case of rainbow 5s and muddy rainbow shouldn't dictate how the convention is applied and useful for muddy cards.
The benefit of having mud cards skip over known not playables is that it increases the wrap-around in almost every case of colors that can be clued to get certain slots. Playing muddy cards is a burden and valuable even just 1 at a time - so squeezing efficiency out of being able to finesse or prompt with a known muddy 5 seems less valuable to playing muddy cards in most instances than being able to skip the muddy 5 and have potentially an extra color to hit the muddy card you actually want played.
Similarly here is a different take on your examples where being able to reclue the m5 is irrelevant since its already known m5: Promt + Finesse Example: Bob: m4-m1-x-x-x Cathy: x-x-(r)m2-(r)m3-(r)m5 I think bad touching the m1 is a minor sacrifice at the cost of a) getting an additional color to potentially clue m3 if m2 was in the other order, and 2) muddy cards are incredibly likely to fix for free as soon as any other color clue is given to Bob.
Double Bluff Example: Donald: x-x-(r)m3-(r)m5 m5 is known as 5 from the previous 5ce. m1 is on the stack. Alice clue a color matching Bob's card should focus m3 always, and Bob and Cathy play as a pestilent double bluff for the same effect, plus m3 is now known m3.
Of course these are limited examples and we could come up with 100 more in either way. Based on my muddy rainbow games, there have been many occasions where someone is holding too many muddy cards for me to correctly focus the card that I want. If that player KNEW one of them was the muddy 5, it would have been hugely helpful to be able to skip over it in a muddy clue. I think it comes down to the value or priority to getting muddy cards played vs squeezing a little bit of rare efficiency out of this.
mangopie1
waweiwoowu
Zamiell
conventions-bot[bot]
Inspired by this chain https://hanab.live/replay/709614#42 https://discord.com/channels/140016142600241152/936275023243673641/936377281453129788 https://hanabi.github.io/docs/variant-specific/muddy-rainbow-cocoa-rainbow/#mud-clues-skipping-over-unplayable-cards
I think we should count all cards that could be muddy, even that they are known unplayable, so we can focus them to make them playable.
I propose to change the convention to only skip known non-muddy. Such as cards already touched by rank, or got negative color clue. I also feel that this is already how we played, and less prone for mistake. As everyone could be de-synced on whether a card is "known unplayable" or not.
Prompt+Finesse Example: Bob: m4-m1-x-x-x Cathy: x-x-(r)m2-(r)m3-(r)m5 m5 is known as 5 from the previous 5ce. m1 is on stack. Alice clue purple (rightmost color) should focus m5, and Bob should assume he got m4 on finesse. Alice avoided bad touching m1 :) In the old convention, Alice only option is to give red to Bob, prompting m2,m3, causing a bad touch on m1.
Double Bluff Example: Donald: x-x-(r)m3-(r)m5 m5 is known as 5 from the previous 5ce. m1 is on stack. Alice clue purple (rightmost color) should focus m5, and Bob and Cathy played as double bluff. In the old convention, focus is only m3, and will only cause Bob to blind play. In the new convention, Alice have a free choice in focusing either m3, or m5, for single or double bluff.