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haveno-dex / haveno

Decentralized P2P exchange platform built on Monero and Tor
https://haveno.exchange
GNU Affero General Public License v3.0
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Multiple Payment Method For One Offer (Cloning offers) #1054

Open HardenedSteel opened 2 months ago

HardenedSteel commented 2 months ago

15% security deposit limits traders to have maximum 6 offers at same time (100/15 = 6.66) otherwise makers have to lower limits which is resulting in very low liquidity.

Similar proposals for Bisq: https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/402 https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/288

https://bisq.wiki/Cloning_an_offer

monerobull commented 2 months ago

I don't like this for 3 reasons:

  1. Essentially makes offers fractionally reserved and the orderbook stats massively inflated.
  2. Leads to more failed offers and frustration on the taker side (long roundtrip times mean it will happen that someone takes a fractional reserved offer that is already taken by someone else. The bigger haveno gets, the more this will happen, especially if only a handful of makers fill most of the orderbook.)
  3. Looks like this is a massive change to the underlying protocol, which already isn't that stable right now.
boldsuck commented 2 months ago

2. Leads to more failed offers and frustration on the taker side (long roundtrip times mean it will happen that someone takes a fractional reserved offer that is already taken by someone else. The bigger haveno gets, the more this will happen, especially if only a handful of makers fill most of the orderbook.)

Yes, I've had this happen a few times in the current trade protocol on bisq: I want to accept an offer and it's already been taken by someone else.

HardenedSteel commented 2 months ago

fractionally reserved

what? no, wallets are non-custodial.

orderbook stats

Can be adjusted.

Leads to more failed offers

Probably can be fixed.

frustration on the taker side

both taker and maker already frustrated from liquidity issues on both Haveno and Bisq

monerobull commented 2 months ago

fractionally reserved

The offers themselves are factually fractionally reserved. If I put 10 XMR of orders on the books but in reality there is only 1 XMR up for trade, that is fractionally reserved.

Leads to more failed offers - Probably can be fixed.

Slow roundtrip is a tor limitation, no fixing that. This system worked on localmonero because they have a centralized server and can instantly close offers once one is taken, doesn't work for Haveno.

both taker and maker already frustrated from liquidity issues on both Haveno and Bisq

bisq already implements fractional reserved offers and it didn't bring them a whole lot more liquidity. It was claimed paypal would massively increase haveno volume, yet i have seen barely any paypal trades so far.

boldsuck commented 2 months ago

both taker and maker already frustrated from liquidity issues on both Haveno and Bisq

It depends on the currency, (bisq trading history) most: XMR, EUR, USD, BRL January 1, 2024 - today = 1.223,743 BTC or 72.966.613 USD I think that's not a small amount considering that this is a community project.

HardenedSteel commented 2 months ago

If I put 10 XMR of orders on the books but in reality there is only 1 XMR up for trade

as i said order book stats can be adjusted and make it transparent.

This system worked on localmonero because they have a centralized server and can instantly close offers once one is taken, doesn't work for Haveno.

It shouldn't mean we should give up and use CEX.

bisq already implements fractional reserved offers

where? and if your understanding of fractional reserved is this, then its good to have it

boldsuck commented 2 months ago

where? and if your understanding of fractional reserved is this, then its good to have it

https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/issues/1072#issuecomment-2187143048

HardenedSteel commented 2 months ago

Thanks that feature is also really needed for Haveno imo

monerobull commented 2 months ago

It shouldn't mean we should give up and use CEX.

There is no "giving up and using CEX" here, we just don't want fractional reserve offers that will lead to tons of offers constantly failing to take.

that feature is also really needed for Haveno imo

And imo it would greatly hurt Haveno and make it even worse of an experience to use for regular users. The only people who would benefit from this are traders with little Monero liquidity.

I do not support subsidizing these people, you want a solution? Buy some more Monero cheapcels.

HardenedSteel commented 2 months ago

you want a solution? Buy some more Monero cheapcels.

thanks for letting me know you're trolling

monerobull commented 2 months ago

trolling

I am dead serious. If you don't have the Monero, don't try to implement fractionally reserved offers to make up for your lack of Monero liquidity. Everyone in Monero benefits by killing off this legacy banking CEX bullshittery.

XMRfamily commented 1 month ago

What about 1 offer but can have multiple payment methods and price tiers (1-5k 3% 5k-10k 2% 10k+ 1%) etc