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hed-standard / hed-schemas

Repository for HED schemas. The SCORE library for clinical annotations is now available.
https://hed-schemas.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
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Handling of imperative effect #67

Open VisLab opened 1 year ago

VisLab commented 1 year ago

Need an Action-imperative tag to capture that a stimulus directs a specific action (source @smakeig, @dungscout96 ).

Questions:

  1. How does this tag relates to the existing Intended-effect.
  2. The tag will clearly need to be part of a parenthesized group and not standing on its own in an annotation. How should it be parenthesized to indicate what it is the imperative-effect of?
  3. How will groups that have it be used in searching? (We have a problem with intended-effect also.)
smakeig commented 1 year ago

I believe Imperative-effect should describe the event that creates the imperative -- ideally, as (Imperative-effect/#) where # a the label of the event fulfilling the imperative. Intended-effect can then be used to describe the event that completes the imperative (Intended-effect/#) where # is the label of the event establishing the imperative.

On Thu, Feb 16, 2023 at 11:27 AM VisLab @.***> wrote:

Need an Action-imperative tag to capture that a stimulus directs a specific action (source @smakeig https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/smakeig__;!!Mih3wA!FZ4r-WrUcH1cCvMojBHRBhd7tZkXf1z00BTwf3YdhiFFs9mql_P_okqGkTfb7c5vL0v69kUQknFqFnpkN82_Uq7b$, @dungscout96 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/dungscout96__;!!Mih3wA!FZ4r-WrUcH1cCvMojBHRBhd7tZkXf1z00BTwf3YdhiFFs9mql_P_okqGkTfb7c5vL0v69kUQknFqFnpkN4Gc6d9_$ ).

Questions:

  1. How does this tag relates to the existing Intended-effect.
  2. The tag will clearly need to be part of a parenthesized group and not standing on its own in an annotation. How should it be parenthesized to indicate what it is the imperative-effect of?
  3. How will groups that have it be used in searching? (We have a problem with intended-effect also.)

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/hed-standard/hed-schemas/issues/67__;!!Mih3wA!FZ4r-WrUcH1cCvMojBHRBhd7tZkXf1z00BTwf3YdhiFFs9mql_P_okqGkTfb7c5vL0v69kUQknFqFnpkN2khYfOT$, or unsubscribe https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AKN2SFRLDRFPO3PLQE7M3FTWXZIO5ANCNFSM6AAAAAAU6MNXWA__;!!Mih3wA!FZ4r-WrUcH1cCvMojBHRBhd7tZkXf1z00BTwf3YdhiFFs9mql_P_okqGkTfb7c5vL0v69kUQknFqFnpkN3bp5edY$ . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

-- Scott Makeig, Research Scientist and Director, Swartz Center for Computational Neuroscience, Institute for Neural Computation, University of California San Diego, La Jolla CA 92093-0559, http://sccn.ucsd.edu/~scott

monique2208 commented 1 year ago

Related to question 1: There is also the current Task tag. I think it was used like this in the Wakemann Henson dataset and also in the Sternberg (it has this for the fixation cross, where it says (Task, Fixate)). Is this use insufficient? And if so, how should action-imparative, or imperative-effect resolve this? Or is Task not meant to be used this way and if so how is it meant to be used?

Question 2: When we need to say what it is an effect of, we can have two strategies. It can always be the effect of the entire event, or it can be an effect of a specific event characteristic. For example: In an oddbal experiment, is the button press the imperative effect of the tone with the higher frequency, or is it an effect of the higher frequency of the tone?

Question 3: I think the most important thing is that actions grouped with such a tag are not actions. And any querying will have to recognize this, if someone is looking for all right hand button presses they should not be analyzing the action-imperative. Other than that I am not sure, and I think this also depends on how we solve questions 2.

About Scott's suggestion: When using Imperative-effect/#, and hashtag represents the label of the event that fulfils the effect, what happens when the imperative is not fulfilled? Also, what would be the label of an event? There is a label tag and there is the name of a definition. I think neither of them currently have to apply to a entire event. I do not think we currently have a system where each event somehow has a unique label that we can reference between events, although that could be useful.

I think I would prefer it if the action imperative would be grouped with other tags that work almost like a query. The imperative is fulfilled if there is an event that fulfils that query within a specified amount of time. This would also require this time to be filled in somewhere, somehow... But I think this is the way where we ask the annotation to be as factual and basic as possible and then allow the tools to figure out as much as they can.