Need a generic application icon

[probonopd]

Instead of

we need soemething in this style

or in this style

so that it can immediately be recognized as being an application.

[PaulMcClernan]

Haha! But seriously, I know what you're getting at

[PaulMcClernan]

I did a bunch of testing with an helloSys install on an old Core2 Duo rig this weekend, I have some general mac-like usability issues I'd like to make note of, for example command+1 command+2 for icon/list view in Filer doesn't work. Also, please include the macOS 'secret' key-combo command+shift+. (period) to toggle show-invisible files, and command+backspace for move to trash. Command+click window titles path pop-up menu is another 'Mac secret' feature I'm a big fan of.
I tried some Linux AppImages with many fails (Elf / ABI issue with libQKey...something Qt related to the key swapping? I guess for correcting 'command'-key key, I know the linux OXT app in the AppImage doesn't use Qt). Only three out of about 12 AppImages I tried launched OK, I'm guessing its better NOT to include a lot of dependencies inside the AppImage/.AppDir bottle? Or the opposite? Installed OctoPkg from ports for some GUI pkg management, but that port seems unmaintained. Installed VLC and seemed to work OK. No OpenJDK >11 in FreeBSD 13 ports, I see rayvnOS did a custom build of a newer OpenJDK. OpenXION (xTalk) ran on OpenJDK11 and did played a music notation sentence with built-in synth/sampler, but text to speech API was not present in that JDK, didn't do much more testing with that, just happy to have some working xTalk scripting present. Would be helpful to be able to mount some SMB shares.

[louies0623]

This one, from the humanity

[PaulMcClernan]

I just did a quickie rebuild of my OXT icon vector, I was thinking that gears might be better.
On macOS the executable binaries inside bundles have a different icon (a Terminal), while app bundles have a different default icon (that's changed a lot over the years). Icons that harken back to macOS Classic may be a little too retro looking after decades+ of Icon designers going in a flattening direction, usually encapsulated in a common shape like rounded rect. May be best, at least for consistency of style, to pick one existing icons theme/style, preferably one that has .svg files available, and then modify or add parts to it as needed. I mean why reinvent the wheel right?

[PaulMcClernan]

[PaulMcClernan]

Should look good in a (future) darkMode

[PaulMcClernan]

[PaulMcClernan]

[PaulMcClernan]

[PaulMcClernan]

last one for tonight, loosley based on Monterey (AppleScript App Bundle) applet icon

[probonopd]

Thanks @PaulMcClernan.

Let's go with this one.

https://github.com/helloSystem/Artwork/issues/2#issuecomment-1329964981

Can you try to follow the visual style of https://docs.elementary.io/hig/reference/iconography a bit more closely and make small icon sizes look really distinctive?

For the generic icon, there should be no text in the document being edited (as it is a generic application, not specifically a text editor).

For a text editor, we might want to use it with the text being edited:

[louies0623]

You are talking about this icon, right?

[PaulMcClernan]

OK I wasn't sure what set you were using as a base/default so will go by Elementary for style going forward. That generic icon app above @louies0623 looks like it fits the bill? Seems if you have a hand with a pen/pencil it should be writing something? Back in the day there were variations of it like MacPaint with hand making a paint swatch. Can convert to .png at various standard sizes when design is settled.

[louies0623]

[louies0623]

[louies0623]

[louies0623]

[PaulMcClernan]

[PaulMcClernan]

that's 128x128px, I'm sort of stuck on the 'blank slate' idea of 'generic' as application

[PaulMcClernan]

[PaulMcClernan]

Looks OK at 32x32px too, and the light slate coloring stands out nicely on darkMode background. I hate making bitmap icons smaller than 32px when we all have HD+ screens nowadays, not to mention most modern OS have some sort of scalable vector rendering API available.

[PaulMcClernan]

helloSys will have a 'darkMode', right? I mean at least a theme (if not transparency effects and all of that too)

[PaulMcClernan]

The piece of paper corner-curling wasn't the case for most app icons in mac sys6-7 classic times, apps had 45 rect (trianglular look)

[louies0623]

I don't like vector rendering icons because it's too much processing power, If these diagrams need to calculate each vector layer, how many have to be calculated, the system is already slow enough.

[probonopd]

helloSys will have a 'darkMode', right?

No. It's violating https://dl.acm.org/doi/book/10.5555/573097

I don't like vector rendering icons

helloSystem is using png icons, optimized for the different sizes as per https://docs.elementary.io/hig/reference/iconography#size.

[louies0623]

But if you go back to the black and white icon of system 7, it is simple but hard to get close to

[probonopd]

@louies0623 your designs look like document icons to me. In this issue we are looking for a generic application icon. So far I'd say https://github.com/helloSystem/Artwork/issues/2#issuecomment-1329964981 comes closest.

[PaulMcClernan]

16px :( yuck

[PaulMcClernan]

32px

[probonopd]

I think we should rotate the paper by 45 degrees and use no perspective, this way the shape will be distinctive even at very small sizes (blue example below).

[PaulMcClernan]

Yeah but come on! Apple hasn't even followed that HIG even in the 1990s, as soon as there was color screens there were shades of grey or metallic.

I like darkMode, easier on the eyes IMO and I have this theory that uses less electricity used lighting up laptop LCD pixels.

SVG Icons could be rasterized and then cached, it's only when you get down near 16x16px where you really need human intervention.

As far as processing power for vectors, NeXT did Display Postscript on Moto68K so....? Of course I'm sure that really depends on your vector art, if your icon has 1000 blends and 5000 points/curves then sure it's going to choke (I've spent 30+ years dealing with that sort of thing on a larger scale)

[PaulMcClernan]

I think we should rotate the paper by 45 degrees and use no perspective, this way the shape will be distinctive even at very small sizes (blue example below).

I was actually working on a "Symbolic" version ( as in this article https://docs.elementary.io/hig/reference/iconography ) a little bit, get it down to a tiny SVG path string (for use in OXT project SVG path widget). Yes, perspective is problematic, particularly at super-small size, I agree. Also color, note those are 1bit and it actually helps recognition in that use-case.

[PaulMcClernan]

[louies0623]

It's just that the icon should retain its original color in dark mode, except black and white.

[probonopd]

There is no dark mode in helloSystem.

[PaulMcClernan]

Snow Leo probably my favorite Mac look over the years, maybe because that iteration has the most longevity for me so I looked at it the longest. No DarkMode = Lame, unless you can make it easy enough to add one. Even System 7+ had Appearance Manager, although mostly goofy themes. Might be actually be helpful to break out Sys8 for this sort of work (ResEdit). Just need the option for some darker colored window frames in Window Manager, and reverse to white text.

[PaulMcClernan]

SVG (128pt)

128px PNG

[PaulMcClernan]

16x16 pixels

[PaulMcClernan]

Symbolic version (Regular & darkMode) SVG 'source':

[louies0623]

I agree that there is a dark mode, but I wish it was like elementary os dark mode, not ubuntu dark mode, its color matching is not very comfortable.

[PaulMcClernan]

I like the way macOS does 'darkMode' which is more then just changing colors, there's special system NS colors constants you can use instead of RGBA values which are actually dynamic colors and the system does things like changing luminosity of rendered items with the 'vibrant' dark material.

[PaulMcClernan]

This one follows the Elementary HID specs a little bit closer

[louies0623]

[PaulMcClernan]

NICE! I really like that it has more contrast and generally sharper, maybe better to use the 'hand from that one above it (I cleaned it up some more, has less points).

Still not sure about page curl on a generic app, if we're going by Apple 90s HIG, but even back then there were a bunch of variants, suitcases, extensions, plugins, etc. I guess we will also need badged variants for icon? Like for the little curved corner Arrow that indicates an alias (symbolic link in our case)?

Anyway I did a full png set of that pervious one, from 128px down to 16px

[PaulMcClernan]

Shopped it in to see how it fits with that Elementary set.

[louies0623]

This is one of the diagrams of MorphOS, maybe you can refer to it, but I just want to ask, is the diagram in their system handed over to Bleander?

[louies0623]

My browser displays SVG files incorrectly, but this might work.

[PaulMcClernan]

I never used Amiga so I'm not familiar with MorphOS, but checking it out now it may be an option for an up-to-date OS for my old Mirror-Door G4 or even my PowerMac 9360-G4 (9600 with 7300 mobo, don't ask!).

Calling it quits for tonight.

[louies0623]

[probonopd]

Thanks for the icons, so far I think https://github.com/helloSystem/Artwork/issues/2#issuecomment-1333079262 comes closest to what we are after.

This is how it currently looks:

Could we

• Increase the length of the pencil
• Make the angle of the pencil less steep. Very few people hold a pencil like that ;-)
• Use no earmark for the paper
• Increase the hand a bit and move it down a bit

Let's do some variations around this one.