Authenticity

[Sigiswulf]

(Before I say anything, apologies if I'm violating some rule or not using some format that I'm supposed to, I have no idea. I also apologize in advance if anything I say causes offense- that is not my intention.)

So, while playing with MCN for CK3, I've noticed some things that, to my knowledge, appear to be inaccurate. For example, I was playing as the de Normandie dynasty and ruling England, which is called Anglieterre with the mod. However, upon looking in an Anglo-Norman dictionary, I've found that it was actually referred to as "Engleterre". Similarly, the Khazars are called Kozars in the mod, when other versions of the name that are stated to be more likely can be found on Wikipedia. Another example is "Kyev", which is a spelling I have never encountered for the city's name; in Old East Slavic, it should be "Kyjevŭ"- similarly, the "-ŭ" ending is found everywhere in OES. I haven't conducted a thorough evaluation of the mod as of yet, but the number of historical names actually appears to be quite small, and your sources seem to be heavily concentrated on the eastern Balkans and England.

I highly encourage seeking out additional sources, as it will help to greatly flesh out your mod and enhance its authenticity. Even if you have reservations against using Wikipedia, it is still better than nothing, and historical names can be found there. Another useful tool is Wiktionary, which has an etymology section for nearly every word and name imaginable, and can trace the word's evolution through various languages, both contemporary and historical. Back in CK2, I started making my own submod for HIP (the "Cultural Enhancement Project") aimed at translating as many names as possible to the actual languages of the period, though I have since abandoned that. I have created one for CK3 called "Rightly Spoken", but similarly, I lack the motivation to finish it. Therefore, I approach you with this petition.

Here I will link the Anglo-Norman dictionary I referred to earlier: http://www.anglo-norman.net/gloss-start.shtml?session=FFMA31204T1586375584

Another useful online dictionary is Glosbe, which has dictionaries for numerous historical languages as well as modern ones.

[hmlendea]

Hi

Thanks for your interest and your input!

Some of the inaccuracies and non-historical names are due to that culture not being fully localised yet, in which case names from other cultures (which are close enough) have been used until a proper one is set. This is also the case for norman

And when it comes to slavic there are a lot of issues with those names and they can be traced back to CK2 where this mod started. There are many forms I've found on the internet for slavic names, depending on the transliteration method that was used. Since CK2 did not support more than a handful of special characters (e.g. ŭ wasn't) I had to use the variants that had to use the transliteration method that didn't use them too much.

However, CK3 is now the primary version of the mod and special characters are not a concern anymore. It will, however, take time to update the old names, and hopefully help from the community as it is quite a daunting task for one person :P

Thanks for the suggestions and sources. I will also update some of the names for the next version.

And if you ever want to, feel free to contribute directly on this repo :D Or if you feel generous you can send me your old mod and I'll include the localisations in this one

BTW: While I didn't document the source "Angliétèrre" and I forgot where it was, Wiktionary did confirm it is in norman. Enleterre being Old French (which is a good find since previously I had Angleterre for french, but that's wrong since it is Middle French)

[hmlendea]

@Sigiswulf This might be a lot to ask, but what do you think about merging your old mod into this one?

[Sigiswulf]

I'd be glad to contribute what I can.

On the topic of Engleterre, if you look in that dictionary I sent you, you'll see that it's quite similar to Old French, which makes sense given that it would have only recently diverged.

[Sigiswulf]

@hmlendea Could I post my old Landed Titles file and have you grab what you can from there? I don't know if I could be bothered to check every county and see if I've changed it or not. If so, I can tell you what areas I remember changing the most, to give you some sense of direction.

Also on that topic, does your mod deal in character names as well? I've assembled some more authentic personal names as well, particularly in the form of Old High German and Middle High German names. I've done a little Old French stuff as well, and was working on getting a good Old East Slavic one.

[hmlendea]

@Sigiswulf Sure. Just post the whole landed_titles file and I can take it from there.

In regards to character names: Not at the moment, but I have considered doing it in the future, so you can post those as well and if/when we'll support character names in this mod (or a separate mod) we can use them.

[Sigiswulf]

@hmlendea Alright, where should I upload it?

[hmlendea]

I think you should be able to attach it here to a new comment. If it's big just archive it to a zip

[Sigiswulf]

swmh_landed_titles.txt Like I said, I mainly did the HRE. Most of it is Middle High German, but there's some Old Saxon and Old French in there as well. I believe I also changed a few things in Russia. There may be some things I'm missing. Be sure to check for German names in other regions too.

You might find a few custom things as well, such as names for a "Sokrinian" culture. Just ignore those. This was going to be a HIP submod, so if the title setup looks familiar, that's why. Also, this is an old project, so some of the names might be inaccurate (though those will mainly just be standard HIP names)

Also an important note- the accent marks I included in the Germanic stuff should be turned into long vowels, if I remember correctly.

[Sigiswulf]

Looking back at this, I noticed you have all of the "burg" names translated as "bërc". "Bërc" is equivalent to "berg", whereas "burg" in Middle High German would be "burc".

[hmlendea]

Looking back at this, I noticed you have all of the "burg" names translated as "bërc". "Bërc" is equivalent to "berg", whereas "burg" in Middle High German would be "burc".

Oops, that's right. I will be trying to fix these in the following releases, thank you.