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Core HTTP Specifications
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Header terminology #111

Closed mnot closed 4 years ago

mnot commented 6 years ago

From #59:

There's some fuzziness about terminology around the differences between:

This could do with some improvement.

mnot commented 6 years ago

Another thing to consider is whether we should condone/use "header" instead of / in addition to "header field"; the former is extremely common use.

reschke commented 6 years ago

I agree that we should define common terminology here. We've had similar questions about WG drafts such as expect-ct and client-hints.

Proposal:

mnot commented 6 years ago

What if we made an explicit split between the syntactic concept of header fields, and the abstract, post-aggregation concept of the headers that most people are used to working with?

That way, we'd have a clean split; these would be syntactic:

... and these would refer to the synthetic value after coalescence:

Ideally, we'd adjust "header section" to "header field section" to reinforce that it's syntactic.

reschke commented 6 years ago

+1 in general, but I don't believe that calling one thing "header field" and the other "header" is going to work - right now people use it interchangeably. Better find a new attribute, such as "aggregated", "coalesced" or "combined":

mnot commented 6 years ago

I suspect that we call it a "header field" and everyone else calls it a "header."

Perhaps if we use only "field" to denote the syntax, and "header" to denote the post-processed thing?

reschke commented 6 years ago

That again would change an existing definition and would be IMHO confusing. I still prefer to be more clear by adding an attribute.

mnot commented 6 years ago

I agree we need to be clear. However, something like "coalesced header field value" is too verbose for common usage. Ideally, we'd be using two words, not four.

Let's look at it from a slightly different perspective. For practitioners and other specifications, the most common term by far is going to be a term to refer to:

If we can come up with a brief, descriptive term for that -- e.g., "header item" -- we can build other things around it, I think.

annevk commented 6 years ago

FWIW, Fetch has this as "combined value".

royfielding commented 6 years ago

I agree we need to clean this up. I would prefer not to paint that shed in a meeting. Can we just point people to this issue and not spend any time on it? Painting it here is fine.

mcmanus commented 6 years ago

in bkk: really discussed header-field vs header nomenclature. Sense of room favored loosening to allow just header but it wasn't unanimous particular wrt email consistency.

mnot commented 5 years ago

Discussed by the editors. Proposal:

In semantics:

Note that "field value" could refer to a field item, a combined field value, or a field instance value.

In messaging:

mcmanus commented 5 years ago

ietf104: general happiness with the above comment. Also discussion of the need to include "colloquial glue" so that other documents may refer to headers without using the field or other such annotations although httpbis documents would likely use the terminology that results from this issue

mnot commented 5 years ago

I notice that we use "field value" and "field-value" inconsistently; it would be good to settle on one. I think that we probably want to omit the hyphen when we're referring to the combined value (as per below).

Also, based upon our current usage (and that elsewhere), I'd propose we use "field value" to mean what's defined as "combined field value" above, to avoid unnecessary changes; it's very rare to refer to a single-line instance of a value.

Furthermore, I'd propose that "header value" be acceptable for field values that are only defined to appear in headers (depending on the outcome of the trailer-related issues, but that seems like a logical direction at this point). We need not use it to define our headers.

I think we can act on this by:

Make sense?

mnot commented 5 years ago

@royfielding @reschke ping on above. I'd like to get this moving.

reschke commented 5 years ago

FWIW; we use "field-value" when talking about the ABNF rule. If there are deviations from that, we should fix those first.