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Run first payroll #156

Closed patcon closed 4 years ago

patcon commented 4 years ago

This initial comment is collaborative and open to modification by all.

Task Summary

🎟️ Re-ticketed from: https://github.com/hyphacoop/organizing/issues/89
đź—Ł Loomio: N/A
đź“… Due date: 29 Feb 2020
🎯 Success criteria: We have run our first payroll.

...

cc: @hyphacoop/finance-wg

To Do

Seeking advice on CoTech forum: https://community.coops.tech/t/what-payroll-schedule-do-you-use-or-recommend/1796

patcon commented 4 years ago

From chat, @dcwalk said:

Just making sure this doesn't get lost from [our 2019-11-20 all-hands standup] call chat, "Written Authorization" is the mechanism for witholding money on wagess: https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/payment-wages

patcon commented 4 years ago
patcon commented 4 years ago

Now that I've gotten around to research, this howto info from a MaRS Discovery District startup incubator offers some insight:

Payroll scheduling options

Payroll scheduling options include:

  • Weekly: This schedule is common in very small enterprises with many short-term, hourly employees
  • Biweekly: This practice is most common in knowledge-based, professional environments. The schedule is consistent and easier to administer than monthly or semi-monthly payrolls, especially if staff are paid hourly
  • Semi-monthly: This schedule is usually set for the fifteenth day and the last day of the month. This method can work for salaried employees. However, it is cumbersome to manage for hourly employees, as hours will vary based on the number of workdays in a given month. The room for error is significant
  • Monthly: Rarely used, this timeframe may sometimes be used for more senior employees in a company, or for commissioned salespeople, where performance is calculated monthly
patcon commented 4 years ago

https://www.knitpeople.com/blog/payroll/best-payroll-software-canada

https://www.thinkaccounting.ca/cloud-payroll-apps/

Doing platform comparison here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16PYp0yTpHW1dp7JKf64MGoxR-Gvb_BmZ0NdzCxre61I/edit#gid=0

Payworks keeps decent docs on general legislation: https://www.payworks.ca/payroll-resources/provincial/ontario.asp

patcon commented 4 years ago

Quickbooks Advanced Payroll ~= Wagepoint

Quickbooks Online Advanced Payroll (the specific plan we decided to go with) is actually powered by Wagepoint to do Canadian payroll. Wagepoint is a local Toronto/Halifax company. https://quickbooks.intuit.com/ca/resources/news/new-advanced-payroll-solution-wagepoint-powered/

It seems that Quickbooks' Advanced Payroll has really bad reviews being left on the app. People are leaving frustrations there, because the app shows up automatically attached to their account after subscribing the Payroll Advanced. (The app is also used for integrating external Wagepoint accounts, except in that case it's in addition to Wagepoint's own UI.) These are just from latest 3 reviews: https://apps.intuit.com/app/apps/appdetails?shortName=wagepoint&locale=en-US

Advanced Payroll - BIG NO - 1/5. [...] It is not an intuitive app, not calendar on submission date, requires you to delete an existing employee and re-enter all the information if something needs to be updated, [...]

Advacned Payroll- NO - 1/5. [...] Tried it with one, you can't make any changes what so ever, you can't even pay an employee a bonus. [...]

Terrible do not use ever - 1/5. this is probably the worst program I have used. [...]

Sounds like people are having poor integration issues. Quickbooks claims that with Advanced Payroll, a benefit is that "you never need to leave Quickbooks interface", but this sounds like it's actually an anti-feature.

The earliest two reviews seem to be in relation to integrating from an external Wagepoint acccount:

Great App - 5/5. Great way for employers to submit and track time easier and more efficiently.

Let Wagepoint take away your payroll pain - 5/5.

The pricing is identical between Quickbooks Advanced Payroll and Wagepoint, but Quickbooks abstracts away Wagepoint's UI, which is what it is so highly reviewed for: https://www.g2.com/products/wagepoint/reviews (4.6 out of 5)

And Wagepoint has won customer service awards, so I'm assuming the poor support reviews are only when routed through Quickbooks' Advanced Payroll integration.

Current course: register for Wagepoint and integrate it into Quickbooks. instead of buying it through Quickbooks and skipping Wagepoint's UI. We'll get more features sooner, as we won't need to wait for Quickbooks to wire them into their poor UI. Wagepoint is recognized as being a better product.

Thoughts on that?

An alternative is to sign up for Quickbooks Online Standard Payroll, which is Inuit's own internal offering, which is separate. Standard and Advanced seem to use totally different backends. Main difference is that filings aren't automatic on Standard Payroll, and so must be printed and mailed regularly and on time.

This second option is what we'd choose if we value staying in Quickbooks ecosystem more than automated remit and filing. With the reputation of Wagepoint being higher than Quickbooks, I'm inclined to prioritize ease of filing, aka Wagepoint.

benhylau commented 4 years ago

I watched:

Both seem pretty straight-forward. I want to make sure that the latter integration will work for QB and Wagepoint for Canadian accounts.

I agree that QB Standard Payroll is non-ideal, and perhaps it's good to keep our payroll account decoupled from QB. QB is terrible enough that I feel we may eventually try to move off of it :)

It seems @patcon has done a lot of research into this and I'd be good for him to make the call if @YurkoWasHere is good with it.

YurkoWasHere commented 4 years ago

Im happy to go with whatever you guys think will make the most sense.

YurkoWasHere commented 4 years ago

decide if employees paid "to date" or "x week(s) in arrears"

Where i work we "earn" vacation. This works out well since when an employee leaves we just pay out the balance.

I will say that one of the confusing things about our setup (using qb desktop so i dont know how it will work on qb online) is that QB records vacation in $$$ (how much money do you have banked) but we all work on how many days do you have.

Issues with this setup (i think)is if a employee gets a raise then takes vacation, the company "looses" money since they are paying him more then was saved.

patcon commented 4 years ago

Still waiting to hear back from wagepoint, but I've called and gotten confirmation i'm in queue.

patcon commented 4 years ago

Called and set up our payroll program account RP0001 with CRA. Here's the information I gave them, and I was very clear that these were very conservative estimates based on what was likely:

The woman was very clear that if any of this changes, we just "tell them on that month's remittance paperwork", and don't need to call again.

patcon commented 4 years ago

Note that this is the info for our Desjardins branch: https://www.desjardins.com/en/votre_caisse/accueil.jsp?transit=82900303

Outstanding Wagepoint Questions

Kyle = Wagepoint sales agent Sheree = Wagepoint onboarding agent

dcwalk commented 4 years ago

RE: holiday hours, not sure interface questions, but here are requirements for pay: https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/public-holidays#section-3

patcon commented 4 years ago

Have an phone appointment with Kyle David @ Wagepoint (in gcal), and I'll have explored and have my questions by then. They wish to know:

  • Are you currently using a payroll system? no
  • What are a couple of the main features you're looking to get?
    • automatic filing, guidance on deductions, not having to think too hard about first payroll runs, QB integration, off-cycle runs, unlimited runs/month (not offered, but just to offer customer feedback), ...
  • When are you hoping to make the transition and for how many employees are you paying? asap
patcon commented 4 years ago

Plain language summary of ROE Web Consent Form

patcon commented 4 years ago

Call with Wagepoint sales agent

benhylau commented 4 years ago

@patcon they seem helpful :) I am +1 to Jan 15 payroll to avoid future complexity if you're okay with

patcon commented 4 years ago

Had call with Sheree, the Wagepoint onboarding specialist. Added answers to questions in above comment: https://github.com/hyphacoop/organizing/issues/156#issuecomment-564753865

She had some bonus wisdom to impact from her 12 years of running payroll:

dcwalk commented 4 years ago

@patcon is the comment above relevant in this issue ^ or #123 or #159? Not sure the source you identify, but curious if you reviewed the material I've posted elsewhere?

edit: oh, it appears you've edited the comment

patcon commented 4 years ago

Those ref issues look right. Was just recording the wagepoint support person's advice (she's a long-term payroll staff), and didn't have time to further process before my cafe closed :)

patcon commented 4 years ago

Holy jeez. We're def committed to Wagepoint at this point, but surprised that this Canadian platform is free for unlimited, any-time payroll runs. Their Rise People HR platform didn't have a "pricing" page when I was looking, just "book a demo", so I missed this link: https://risepeople.com/small-business/

I have 20 employees or less. Great, that means you’re eligible for free payroll!

Our easy-to-use online system saves you tons of time and makes your life easier by automating your T4s, CRA remittances and ROEs so you don’t have to!

You can pay your employees any time. Run payroll as many times as you need, at your convenience. You can make off-cycle payments, cancel a pay run, or give a bonus on the spot without having to make tax calculations.

Anyhow, not going back on Wagepoint now -- Rise has obvious downsides of lacking QB integration anyhow -- but interesting. The platforms allows for paying employees in cryptocurrency.

dcwalk commented 4 years ago

Called WSIB per todo above from @patcon and confirmed we are in a "by application" (read: optional) industry, summarized in #123

patcon commented 4 years ago

Candidate To Dos

From 2019-12-17 finance WG meeting.

patcon commented 4 years ago

Signed and stored completed TD1 and TD1ON forms in a private GDrive folder :lock:

patcon commented 4 years ago

Added todos for setting up direct deposit, if you could add that to your docket for this week @benhylau :rocket:

patcon commented 4 years ago

DECISION via @hyphacoop/finance-wg chat room convo: We will not have employee numbers or IDs as an organization unless compelled. cc @hyphacoop/governance-wg

benhylau commented 4 years ago

Direct deposit on Wagepoint and TD forms on Drive, done. Thanks for the ping @patcon

patcon commented 4 years ago

This seems mega useful for mapping chart of accounts:

benhylau commented 4 years ago

I would like the payroll process to not depend on the amounts or timelines that we collect on invoices. There are a couple reasons:

I have created a sheet to show how this can be done for the current cycle, and left comments in some cells to clarify.

I also think we can go ahead with what @patcon has for this cycle and discuss my proposal at the next Finance WG meeting / All Hands, because we can easily plug his numbers into this proposal if we decide to go with it. It just means the project rate for this cycle will be an effective rate that @patcon's method came up with.

YurkoWasHere commented 4 years ago

I think hedging the conversion rate by setting a hourly rate that its 25% (clip) + few % below what we would typically get paid would make calculations of payroll when it gets more complicated easier.

We will have to keep an eye on that exchange rate to make sure it does not dip to far into the "clip" (or maybe even too far away from it) and at that point re-adjust.

This will be a necessary method in the future if we have to ever "dip" into the "reserve fund" to pay an employee before a client actually sends the cheque as we cannot predict what the rate till be.

IE this round, December hours was not yet processed but COULD have still been paid if the above was done, but now its depended on collecting the money first.

patcon commented 4 years ago

@YurkoWasHere and I realized last night that the mapping is only important after the payroll run is created. The mapping allows the quickbooks integration to export details to quickbooks. So while it's important, it can be configured after

patcon commented 4 years ago

Had a call with wagepoint today.

Call Notes

patcon commented 4 years ago

New information: QBO "Easy Start" plan ($20/mo) doesn't support Wagepoint syncing, only "Essentials" ($35/mo) and above does. (This was not documented, and Wagepoint is updating its docs.)

Until we need to upgrade our QBO plan, we'll expect our bookkeeper to do this manually.

benhylau commented 4 years ago

Tasks remaining

patcon commented 4 years ago

garry sent me his basic info and SIN, so it's in our system. ( @benhylau if you'd prefer i didn't tread when something came to me from before, just say so)

patcon commented 4 years ago

Ok, so here's a rundown of the process for adding a new employee/worker to payroll system: https://hackmd.io/qwgEqqkGRc-gEso6rM12uw?view

And here's a general process for onboarding a new worker (mainly employee), which seemed to make sense to think about while working on this: https://hackmd.io/wdNLfu84RoGaovhDbpLvBQ?view

Checklist for running payroll itself is incoming before bed.

patcon commented 4 years ago

Also, in running through this, I realized that perhaps we do need to submit a blank payroll through wagepoint in order for them to process our "nil remittance": https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/payroll/remitting-source-deductions/report-nil-remittance-when-report.html

(I'm not seeing their system mention anything being sent in their system, but the Wagepoint support docs say we can confirm remittance in CRA MY Business portal. I suspect we'll want to submit a manual nil remittance through CRA My Business portal, and seems from above link that this must be within 2 months.

patcon commented 4 years ago

Here's the docs for running payroll, though I think we might want to run it differently this coming time. We processed it as "Salaried" last time, but hourly might make more sense after this first run-through, and seeing how it could work: https://hackmd.io/ru71u6cCRUevyAoFB0k5JQ?view

benhylau commented 4 years ago

Policy on work during public holidays

Relevant sections from https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/public-holidays#section-1

A. Calculating public holiday pay for variable hours of work per period

Example: When there are no set hours and each pay cheque includes vacation pay

Bertie does not work a set number of hours per day or days per week. Her pay varies from week to week, according to the time she has worked. She and her employer have agreed in writing that she will receive four per cent vacation pay on each pay cheque.

  1. First, Bertie's regular wages earned during the four work weeks before the holiday are: $1,500 regular wages<
  2. Second, her vacation pay payable is calculated: $1,500 X 4% = $60
  3. Then her regular wages earned and vacation pay payable are added together: $1,500 + $60 = $1,560
  4. Bertie's total wages earned and vacation pay payable are then divided by 20: $1,560 / 20 = $78

Result: Bertie is entitled to $78 public holiday pay.

B. Employee work on a public holiday

When an employee who qualifies for the day off has agreed electronically or in writing to work on a public holiday

Most employees have the right to get the public holiday off and get paid public holiday pay. However, if an employee agrees electronically or in writing to work on the public holiday, there are two options:

  • the employee is entitled to receive regular wages for all hours worked on the public holiday, plus a substitute day off work with public holiday pay;

or

  • if the employee agrees electronically or in writing, they are entitled to public holiday pay for the public holiday plus premium pay for all hours worked on the public holiday. In this case, the employee will not be given a substitute day off.

Summary

We maintain the recommendation for employees to not work on a public holiday, but in the case where employees choose to do or under unexpected circumstances, here is how we'd handle it.

We will pay public holiday pay according to (A) on each paycheque, and then pay regular wages according to (B), where the "substitute day" is already included in the distributed amount (A). We will have this in the employment agreement (i.e. "in writing") that when employees decide to work on a public holiday they are agreeing to this policy, and with no expectation of "public holiday plus premium pay".

benhylau commented 4 years ago

https://github.com/hyphacoop/handbook/pull/53 is ready for review and resolves this ticket.