Closed patcon closed 4 years ago
From chat, @dcwalk said:
Just making sure this doesn't get lost from [our
2019-11-20
all-hands standup] call chat, "Written Authorization" is the mechanism for witholding money on wagess: https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/payment-wages
wont-do
wont-do
2019-11-27
all hands meeting: https://link.hypha.coop/meetingsNow that I've gotten around to research, this howto info from a MaRS Discovery District startup incubator offers some insight:
Payroll scheduling options
Payroll scheduling options include:
- Weekly: This schedule is common in very small enterprises with many short-term, hourly employees
- Biweekly: This practice is most common in knowledge-based, professional environments. The schedule is consistent and easier to administer than monthly or semi-monthly payrolls, especially if staff are paid hourly
- Semi-monthly: This schedule is usually set for the fifteenth day and the last day of the month. This method can work for salaried employees. However, it is cumbersome to manage for hourly employees, as hours will vary based on the number of workdays in a given month. The room for error is significant
- Monthly: Rarely used, this timeframe may sometimes be used for more senior employees in a company, or for commissioned salespeople, where performance is calculated monthly
https://www.knitpeople.com/blog/payroll/best-payroll-software-canada
https://www.thinkaccounting.ca/cloud-payroll-apps/
Doing platform comparison here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16PYp0yTpHW1dp7JKf64MGoxR-Gvb_BmZ0NdzCxre61I/edit#gid=0
Payworks keeps decent docs on general legislation: https://www.payworks.ca/payroll-resources/provincial/ontario.asp
Quickbooks Online Advanced Payroll (the specific plan we decided to go with) is actually powered by Wagepoint to do Canadian payroll. Wagepoint is a local Toronto/Halifax company. https://quickbooks.intuit.com/ca/resources/news/new-advanced-payroll-solution-wagepoint-powered/
It seems that Quickbooks' Advanced Payroll has really bad reviews being left on the app. People are leaving frustrations there, because the app shows up automatically attached to their account after subscribing the Payroll Advanced. (The app is also used for integrating external Wagepoint accounts, except in that case it's in addition to Wagepoint's own UI.) These are just from latest 3 reviews: https://apps.intuit.com/app/apps/appdetails?shortName=wagepoint&locale=en-US
Advanced Payroll - BIG NO - 1/5. [...] It is not an intuitive app, not calendar on submission date, requires you to delete an existing employee and re-enter all the information if something needs to be updated, [...]
Advacned Payroll- NO - 1/5. [...] Tried it with one, you can't make any changes what so ever, you can't even pay an employee a bonus. [...]
Terrible do not use ever - 1/5. this is probably the worst program I have used. [...]
Sounds like people are having poor integration issues. Quickbooks claims that with Advanced Payroll, a benefit is that "you never need to leave Quickbooks interface", but this sounds like it's actually an anti-feature.
The earliest two reviews seem to be in relation to integrating from an external Wagepoint acccount:
Great App - 5/5. Great way for employers to submit and track time easier and more efficiently.
Let Wagepoint take away your payroll pain - 5/5.
The pricing is identical between Quickbooks Advanced Payroll and Wagepoint, but Quickbooks abstracts away Wagepoint's UI, which is what it is so highly reviewed for: https://www.g2.com/products/wagepoint/reviews (4.6 out of 5)
And Wagepoint has won customer service awards, so I'm assuming the poor support reviews are only when routed through Quickbooks' Advanced Payroll integration.
Current course: register for Wagepoint and integrate it into Quickbooks. instead of buying it through Quickbooks and skipping Wagepoint's UI. We'll get more features sooner, as we won't need to wait for Quickbooks to wire them into their poor UI. Wagepoint is recognized as being a better product.
Thoughts on that?
An alternative is to sign up for Quickbooks Online Standard Payroll, which is Inuit's own internal offering, which is separate. Standard and Advanced seem to use totally different backends. Main difference is that filings aren't automatic on Standard Payroll, and so must be printed and mailed regularly and on time.
This second option is what we'd choose if we value staying in Quickbooks ecosystem more than automated remit and filing. With the reputation of Wagepoint being higher than Quickbooks, I'm inclined to prioritize ease of filing, aka Wagepoint.
I watched:
Both seem pretty straight-forward. I want to make sure that the latter integration will work for QB and Wagepoint for Canadian accounts.
I agree that QB Standard Payroll is non-ideal, and perhaps it's good to keep our payroll account decoupled from QB. QB is terrible enough that I feel we may eventually try to move off of it :)
It seems @patcon has done a lot of research into this and I'd be good for him to make the call if @YurkoWasHere is good with it.
Im happy to go with whatever you guys think will make the most sense.
decide if employees paid "to date" or "x week(s) in arrears"
Where i work we "earn" vacation. This works out well since when an employee leaves we just pay out the balance.
I will say that one of the confusing things about our setup (using qb desktop so i dont know how it will work on qb online) is that QB records vacation in $$$ (how much money do you have banked) but we all work on how many days do you have.
Issues with this setup (i think)is if a employee gets a raise then takes vacation, the company "looses" money since they are paying him more then was saved.
Still waiting to hear back from wagepoint, but I've called and gotten confirmation i'm in queue.
Called and set up our payroll program account RP0001
with CRA. Here's the information I gave them, and I was very clear that these were very conservative estimates based on what was likely:
The woman was very clear that if any of this changes, we just "tell them on that month's remittance paperwork", and don't need to call again.
Note that this is the info for our Desjardins branch: https://www.desjardins.com/en/votre_caisse/accueil.jsp?transit=82900303
Kyle = Wagepoint sales agent Sheree = Wagepoint onboarding agent
(829) FÉDÉRATION DES CAISSES DESJARDINS DU QUÉBEC, LÉVIS, CANADA
vs (829) La Fédération des Caisses Populaires de l’Ontario Inc.
(in Wagepoint)RE: holiday hours, not sure interface questions, but here are requirements for pay: https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/public-holidays#section-3
Have an phone appointment with Kyle David @ Wagepoint (in gcal), and I'll have explored and have my questions by then. They wish to know:
- Are you currently using a payroll system? no
- What are a couple of the main features you're looking to get?
- automatic filing, guidance on deductions, not having to think too hard about first payroll runs, QB integration, off-cycle runs, unlimited runs/month (not offered, but just to offer customer feedback), ...
- When are you hoping to make the transition and for how many employees are you paying? asap
@patcon they seem helpful :) I am +1 to Jan 15 payroll to avoid future complexity if you're okay with
Had call with Sheree, the Wagepoint onboarding specialist. Added answers to questions in above comment: https://github.com/hyphacoop/organizing/issues/156#issuecomment-564753865
She had some bonus wisdom to impact from her 12 years of running payroll:
@patcon is the comment above relevant in this issue ^ or #123 or #159? Not sure the source you identify, but curious if you reviewed the material I've posted elsewhere?
edit: oh, it appears you've edited the comment
Those ref issues look right. Was just recording the wagepoint support person's advice (she's a long-term payroll staff), and didn't have time to further process before my cafe closed :)
Holy jeez. We're def committed to Wagepoint at this point, but surprised that this Canadian platform is free for unlimited, any-time payroll runs. Their Rise People HR platform didn't have a "pricing" page when I was looking, just "book a demo", so I missed this link: https://risepeople.com/small-business/
I have 20 employees or less. Great, that means you’re eligible for free payroll!
Our easy-to-use online system saves you tons of time and makes your life easier by automating your T4s, CRA remittances and ROEs so you don’t have to!
You can pay your employees any time. Run payroll as many times as you need, at your convenience. You can make off-cycle payments, cancel a pay run, or give a bonus on the spot without having to make tax calculations.
Anyhow, not going back on Wagepoint now -- Rise has obvious downsides of lacking QB integration anyhow -- but interesting. The platforms allows for paying employees in cryptocurrency.
Called WSIB per todo above from @patcon and confirmed we are in a "by application" (read: optional) industry, summarized in #123
From 2019-12-17 finance WG meeting.
Signed and stored completed TD1 and TD1ON forms in a private GDrive folder :lock:
Added todos for setting up direct deposit, if you could add that to your docket for this week @benhylau :rocket:
DECISION via @hyphacoop/finance-wg chat room convo: We will not have employee numbers or IDs as an organization unless compelled. cc @hyphacoop/governance-wg
Direct deposit on Wagepoint and TD forms on Drive, done. Thanks for the ping @patcon
This seems mega useful for mapping chart of accounts:
I would like the payroll process to not depend on the amounts or timelines that we collect on invoices. There are a couple reasons:
Exchange rate fluctuations and transaction costs (e.g. unexpected transaction costs are business costs, optimizations are business savings, late payments are business risks) and they should be absorbed by the business to provide stability to the employee
From https://handbook.hypha.coop/finance.html#calculating-member-wages
The amount is calculated based on the invoiced amount before transaction costs.
Costs of collection, such as receiving a wire or currency exchange, is a cost that the Hypha collective absorbs.
Invoice collection timelines and pay periods happen on independent threads
From a worker's perspective, I want to know how much I will be paid in a period based on how many hours I worked, independent on all these changing factors like invoice timelines and exchange rates. Finance's commitment to the worker should be "each hour you put into project X, you will get paid Y, for worked rendered during period Z, on the 15th day of each month"
I have created a sheet to show how this can be done for the current cycle, and left comments in some cells to clarify.
I also think we can go ahead with what @patcon has for this cycle and discuss my proposal at the next Finance WG meeting / All Hands, because we can easily plug his numbers into this proposal if we decide to go with it. It just means the project rate
for this cycle will be an effective rate that @patcon's method came up with.
I think hedging the conversion rate by setting a hourly rate that its 25% (clip) + few % below what we would typically get paid would make calculations of payroll when it gets more complicated easier.
We will have to keep an eye on that exchange rate to make sure it does not dip to far into the "clip" (or maybe even too far away from it) and at that point re-adjust.
This will be a necessary method in the future if we have to ever "dip" into the "reserve fund" to pay an employee before a client actually sends the cheque as we cannot predict what the rate till be.
IE this round, December hours was not yet processed but COULD have still been paid if the above was done, but now its depended on collecting the money first.
@YurkoWasHere and I realized last night that the mapping is only important after the payroll run is created. The mapping allows the quickbooks integration to export details to quickbooks. So while it's important, it can be configured after
Had a call with wagepoint today.
New information: QBO "Easy Start" plan ($20/mo) doesn't support Wagepoint syncing, only "Essentials" ($35/mo) and above does. (This was not documented, and Wagepoint is updating its docs.)
Until we need to upgrade our QBO plan, we'll expect our bookkeeper to do this manually.
garry sent me his basic info and SIN, so it's in our system. ( @benhylau if you'd prefer i didn't tread when something came to me from before, just say so)
Ok, so here's a rundown of the process for adding a new employee/worker to payroll system: https://hackmd.io/qwgEqqkGRc-gEso6rM12uw?view
And here's a general process for onboarding a new worker (mainly employee), which seemed to make sense to think about while working on this: https://hackmd.io/wdNLfu84RoGaovhDbpLvBQ?view
Checklist for running payroll itself is incoming before bed.
Also, in running through this, I realized that perhaps we do need to submit a blank payroll through wagepoint in order for them to process our "nil remittance": https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/businesses/topics/payroll/remitting-source-deductions/report-nil-remittance-when-report.html
(I'm not seeing their system mention anything being sent in their system, but the Wagepoint support docs say we can confirm remittance in CRA MY Business portal. I suspect we'll want to submit a manual nil remittance through CRA My Business portal, and seems from above link that this must be within 2 months.
Here's the docs for running payroll, though I think we might want to run it differently this coming time. We processed it as "Salaried" last time, but hourly might make more sense after this first run-through, and seeing how it could work: https://hackmd.io/ru71u6cCRUevyAoFB0k5JQ?view
Relevant sections from https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/public-holidays#section-1
Example: When there are no set hours and each pay cheque includes vacation pay
Bertie does not work a set number of hours per day or days per week. Her pay varies from week to week, according to the time she has worked. She and her employer have agreed in writing that she will receive four per cent vacation pay on each pay cheque.
- First, Bertie's regular wages earned during the four work weeks before the holiday are: $1,500 regular wages<
- Second, her vacation pay payable is calculated: $1,500 X 4% = $60
- Then her regular wages earned and vacation pay payable are added together: $1,500 + $60 = $1,560
- Bertie's total wages earned and vacation pay payable are then divided by 20: $1,560 / 20 = $78
Result: Bertie is entitled to $78 public holiday pay.
When an employee who qualifies for the day off has agreed electronically or in writing to work on a public holiday
Most employees have the right to get the public holiday off and get paid public holiday pay. However, if an employee agrees electronically or in writing to work on the public holiday, there are two options:
- the employee is entitled to receive regular wages for all hours worked on the public holiday, plus a substitute day off work with public holiday pay;
or
- if the employee agrees electronically or in writing, they are entitled to public holiday pay for the public holiday plus premium pay for all hours worked on the public holiday. In this case, the employee will not be given a substitute day off.
We maintain the recommendation for employees to not work on a public holiday, but in the case where employees choose to do or under unexpected circumstances, here is how we'd handle it.
We will pay public holiday pay according to (A) on each paycheque, and then pay regular wages according to (B), where the "substitute day" is already included in the distributed amount (A). We will have this in the employment agreement (i.e. "in writing") that when employees decide to work on a public holiday they are agreeing to this policy, and with no expectation of "public holiday plus premium pay".
https://github.com/hyphacoop/handbook/pull/53 is ready for review and resolves this ticket.
This initial comment is collaborative and open to modification by all.
Task Summary
🎟️ Re-ticketed from: https://github.com/hyphacoop/organizing/issues/89
đź—Ł Loomio: N/A
đź“… Due date: 29 Feb 2020
🎯 Success criteria: We have run our first payroll.
...
cc: @hyphacoop/finance-wg
To Do
wait > 2 (account) > 2 (payroll) > enter BN
Register with Ontario Ministry of Finance to remit EHThttps://github.com/hyphacoop/organizing/issues/160wont-do
Register with WSIBhttps://github.com/hyphacoop/organizing/issues/123wont-do
2019-11-27
all hands meeting: https://link.hypha.coop/meetingsQuickBooks Payroll Advanced.Wagepoint.leaning toward quickbooksset up quickbooks integration. how to(edit: bookkeeper to handle)Map your Chart of Accounts. config pagewon't work with our account tier. https://github.com/hyphacoop/organizing/issues/156#issuecomment-578363656Export payroll data into QuickBooks Onlineaccelerated 1,accelerated 2docsgarry,udit, elon)Seeking advice on CoTech forum: https://community.coops.tech/t/what-payroll-schedule-do-you-use-or-recommend/1796