search

hzeller / txtempus

A DCF77, WWVB, JJY and MSF clock LF-band signal transmitter using the Raspberry Pi
GNU General Public License v3.0
415 stars 67 forks source link

Q: Increase transmit power/range #8

Open denniskarlsson opened 4 years ago

denniskarlsson commented 4 years ago

If I want to be able to send the signal to my entire house, how do I build such a thing?

harlock974 commented 8 months ago

@harlock974 for the inductor I chose, the DC Resistance is 40Ω. Should R1 match this value?

As your mosfets can handle up to 4 Amperes, you can remove R1 resistor. For 5V power you will have 5 / 40 = 0.125 A max.

smeisner commented 8 months ago

ok, I added suggestions from @jrotaetxe and @harlock974 - R1 removed and created additional length to the trace leading to L1. Please take a look at the design files. If they look good, I can submit to begin manufacturing.

smeisner commented 8 months ago

For reference: https://www.meisners.net/files/txtempus-sch.png https://www.meisners.net/files/txtempus-pcb.pdf https://www.meisners.net/files/txtempus-3d.jpg

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

Steve, please. Wait till I reach home. The S are better in other place...

Enviado desde Outlook para Androidhttps://aka.ms/AAb9ysg

From: Jon Rotaetxe @.> Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 3:36:22 PM To: hzeller/txtempus @.>; hzeller/txtempus @.> Cc: Mention @.> Subject: Re: [hzeller/txtempus] Q: Increase transmit power/range (#8)

Steve..

Enviado desde Outlook para Androidhttps://aka.ms/AAb9ysg

From: Steve Meisner @.> Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 3:23:58 PM To: hzeller/txtempus @.> Cc: jrotaetxe @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [hzeller/txtempus] Q: Increase transmit power/range (#8)

For reference: https://www.meisners.net/files/txtempus-sch.png https://www.meisners.net/files/txtempus-pcb.pdf https://www.meisners.net/files/txtempus-3d.jpg

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/hzeller/txtempus/issues/8#issuecomment-1789048951, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFH34D6SD2TGXDHLUP3HQZ3YCJLP5AVCNFSM4JGIRRMKU5DIOJSWCZC7NNSXTN2JONZXKZKDN5WW2ZLOOQ5TCNZYHEYDIOBZGUYQ. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

txtempus-3d_jon

smeisner commented 8 months ago

How's this? txtempus-3d

Let me know if the traces aren't quite right (number of loops, width, placement ... anything!!)

smeisner commented 8 months ago

I just realized I did not follow your example properly. Is my version good or should I make it closer to yours?

smeisner commented 8 months ago

txtempus-3d

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

The last one. Please make more turns and thicker track and will be perfect. Make the 4 square holes metal narrower to gain space. Sorry for not having neither tools nor ability to draw better... Regards Jon

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

In fact, both proposals are correct, so whichever one you choose will be ok. Put metal in the "antenna", and, in general, make wide tracks to lower thr resistance (thus, increasing the current). This is general to the whole design, so better if you made wide tracks, but considering the narrower one will be the ruler. In short, see the narrowest passage you have and choose that with as the size for the tracks...

smeisner commented 8 months ago

OK, I was concerned about impedance with wider tracks, but you know this stuff better than me!!

What do you think? I made all track widths 0.5mm

txtempus-3d

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

That one is perfect. Go ahead

smeisner commented 8 months ago

\o/

Submitting order for 15 now!! ...well, after I verify all pins again!

smeisner commented 8 months ago

Order placed. They are estimating 2-3 days for production and 2-4 days shipping. I was also given a $9 credit, so the total cost was ~$39 including shipping!!! So cheap!!

These boards are going to be very slim and I can probably use flat mail to ship them, which will also be cheap. Please email your address and I will get these out to you as soon as I receive them. Also, let me know if you want C1 and/or C2 installed.

txtempus@meisners.net

Thanks @jrotaetxe and @harlock974 for your help!

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

Me, with a couple of 4.7 nF capacitors all cards, please See your "Car maker" email...

denniskarlsson commented 8 months ago

Does anyone know what capacitors I need? I live in Sweden and I receive the signal from Germany. I also want as good range as possible.

harlock974 commented 8 months ago

To clarify, the ten meter range I reach is with a ferrite antenna (from an AM radio, see picture in #34). I am curious to know which range could be achieved with an onboard track antenna. Please post your results.

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

Does anyone know what capacitors I need? I live in Sweden and I receive the signal from Germany. I also want as good range as possible.

Two of 4.7 nF each, and you won't receive signal for Germany with this. With this device, you will generate the signal from the Pi's internal clock (which is sinchronised via NTP). The resut of all this exercise is uncertain, as Harlock says. No claims later... Regards

smeisner commented 8 months ago

So summarizing the summary:

I would put the 470 uH coil already suggested and leave pads to solder two capacitors in paralel.

USA: Only one capacitor, 15 nF JAPAN: Two capacitors, 15 nF, in paralel EUR: Or one cap of 10 nF or a couple of 4.7 nF in paralel

...

Based on the above, I just placed an order with DigiKey for (50) 4.7nF and (50) 15nF 1206 SMD caps. I will install these based on request prior to shipping.

Steve

smeisner commented 8 months ago

Boards are completed (PCB and assembly). Just awaiting shipping to me,

Following is the list -- please verify!!

Let me know if any of the above is wrong. Also, let me know if you DO NOT want a 40 pin female header soldered on pointing down (to install this board on top of a RPi Zero).

nickapos commented 8 months ago

Hi Steve, that is correct for me. Cheers --------------------------------------------- Nick Apostolakis, MM0NKKOn 4 Nov 2023, at 01:13, Steve Meisner @.***> wrote: Boards are completed (PCB and assembly). Just awaiting shipping to me, Following is the list -- please verify!!

@jrotaetxe -- How many boards and what caps do you want installed? No charge for you for delivery since you guided me thru the PCB design! @harlock974 -- Would you like one/a few? I will gladly cover the cost of shipping since you contributed the circuit design! @denniskarlsson -- (1) board with Two 4.7 nF caps @nickapos -- (2) boards, both with (2) 4.7 nF? @cdavidc -- (2) boards (Euro and Japan), so (1) with (2) 15nF and (1) with (2) 4.7nF

Let me know if any of the above is wrong. Also, let me know if you DO NOT want a 40 pin female header soldered on pointing down (to install this board on top of a RPi Zero).

—Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

jrotaetxe commented 8 months ago

5 Boards, 3 with two 4.7nF (EU) 2 with two 15 nF (JP) I want to be charged as the rest of the infantry. Moreover, I encourage others to take their share of your pieces, to compensate the annoyance of doing this for everybody. Regards Jon

harlock974 commented 8 months ago 
* @harlock974 -- Would you like one/a few? I will gladly cover the cost of shipping since you contributed the circuit design!

Thank you, I want one without the C1 C2 capacitors, and I also want to be charged. I send you an email for the details.

lachesis commented 7 months ago

Is it still possible to get in on this? Ideally I'd like 3 boards, configured for US, EU, and JJY40. I'm happy to pay of course.

smeisner commented 7 months ago

Sorry this round is all done. Certainly if we do another round.

Nov 19, 2023 1:47:39 PM Eric Swanson @.***>:

Is it still possible to get in on this? Ideally I'd like 3 boards, configured for US, EU, and JJY40. I'm happy to pay of course.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub[https://github.com/hzeller/txtempus/issues/8#issuecomment-1817943499], or unsubscribe[https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABVHM3BD3ZRTZ7CU4NO3CQLYFJH3LAVCNFSM4JGIRRMKU5DIOJSWCZC7NNSXTN2JONZXKZKDN5WW2ZLOOQ5TCOBRG44TIMZUHE4Q]. You are receiving this because you were mentioned. [Tracking image][https://github.com/notifications/beacon/ABVHM3A4N6JA3BRWJG4BT33YFJH3LA5CNFSM4JGIRRMKYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGONRNZ3SY.gif]

jauderho commented 7 months ago

Likewise, I'm in for the next round for US boards.

smeisner commented 7 months ago

As people that ordered boards already receive them and do some initial tests, I'd like to solicit feedback in case anything should be changed/improved. If so, I would be willing to do another PCB rev and manufacturing. We already have 2 additional people that want these! @jauderho @lachesis ...

I actually went out and purchased an approved label printer so if we do another round, I don't have to spend hours at the local USPS office again!! I did buy it for other reasons too! :P

jrotaetxe commented 7 months ago

Happy like a pig in the mud with my European signal generator. Will do some measurements tomorrow, but @30 cm (what I really need) runs perfectly. With 61 years, I can hear crearly the vibration of every second. For the measurements, I doubt they are going to be very useful, as we all have different receivers, with different sensitivities. Also, the relative position of the transmitter vs receiver can influence... But the device transmits power, Clearly. A pity I cannot measure the power peak frequency....

miloshev commented 7 months ago

@smeisner i would also like to order 2 boards with dcf77 and shipping to Europe if you have some :)

senza-lattosio commented 4 months ago

@smeisner Hi thank you for your effort! I'm wondering if you could share the schematics so that I can place an order on my own. Before stumbling upon this, I realized a very gross circuit usign the original Andreas Spiess' work and a ferrite antenna from AM radio. It works quite well but Im looking for a more elegant implementation and possibly wider coverage. Right now Im able to reach 5 to 6 meters. I experimented a little bit by raising the voltage but my guess is that I just get more noise (ie: the signal is strong but no sync).

I also used some equipment I bought years ago in another rush of enthusiasm: an expertMouse clock 0107 (now discontinued) with the Winclk exe: I can clearly see a 90% signallbut many wrong bits. Thank you for your help

smeisner commented 4 months ago

@senza-lattosio Sure! What would be easiest; gerber files to merely submit an order or would you like the KiCad files I created? The latter will allow you to customize the PCB and create your own production files...assuming you're using KiCad (v6)

I also built a transmitter based on Andrea's video (with the ferrite core antenna), but did not get satisfactory coverage. This new board does work quite well, but I have not done an in-depth analysis.

smeisner commented 4 months ago

@miloshev What country are you in? If I do another run, I will certainly include you. But if @senza-lattosio is going to place an order, maybe you could work something out...

harlock974 commented 4 months ago

Hi @senza-lattosio

I realized a very gross circuit usign the original Andreas Spiess' work and a ferrite antenna from AM radio. It works quite well but Im looking for a more elegant implementation and possibly wider coverage. Right now Im able to reach 5 to 6 meters.

You should reach a better range with a ferrite antenna and 5V from Raspberry GPIO. Check the schematic with mosfet here. If you have an oscilloscope, check signal quality at the antenna and adjust capacitor accordingly. For DCF77, you will have a longer range with Raspberry Pi 3 than with a Pi 4 (because of available internal clocks).

senza-lattosio commented 4 months ago

Hi @senza-lattosio

I realized a very gross circuit usign the original Andreas Spiess' work and a ferrite antenna from AM radio. It works quite well but Im looking for a more elegant implementation and possibly wider coverage. Right now Im able to reach 5 to 6 meters.

You should reach a better range with a ferrite antenna and 5V from Raspberry GPIO. Check the schematic with mosfet here. If you have an oscilloscope, check signal quality at the antenna and adjust capacitor accordingly. For DCF77, you will have a longer range with Raspberry Pi 3 than with a Pi 4 (because of available internal clocks).

@harlock974 Thank you. Right now I'm actually using the 5V from GPIO, but I'm using a rpi zero WH; are you suggesting that using an rpi 3 will improve coverage? I didn't use rpi4 because when I frst launched txtempus there I read a message like "txtempus is known for not working properly on rpi4, go back to a previous model", so I settled for a rpi zero bc I guess is the same form factor as the @smeisner pcb.

btw, Im just realizing now that your setup is a bit different from smeisner's: is it because of the changes you made in the code?

senza-lattosio commented 4 months ago

@senza-lattosio Sure! What would be easiest; gerber files to merely submit an order or would you like the KiCad files I created? The latter will allow you to customize the PCB and create your own production files...assuming you're using KiCad (v6)

I also built a transmitter based on Andrea's video (with the ferrite core antenna), but did not get satisfactory coverage. This new board does work quite well, but I have not done an in-depth analysis.

Thank you so much. I'm planning something like this: use Kicad to add the required caps for the DCF77 signal and get a gerber file to submit to pcbway to get a handful of pcb's. The only problem with my plan is that I never used kicad before, but Im very much willing to learn. Somewhere here I also read the proper values for the caps to be added to your configuration, so I will look for it. Thank you

harlock974 commented 4 months ago

@harlock974 Thank you. Right now I'm actually using the 5V from GPIO, but I'm using a rpi zero WH; are you suggesting that using an rpi 3 will improve coverage?

Pi Zero has the same clocks than the Pi 3 so you should get the same range.

btw, Im just realizing now that your setup is a bit different from smeisner's: is it because of the changes you made in the code?

No, smeisner removed the 10 Ohms resistor because its Mosfet are more powerfull than mine. Except for this the circuits are the same. Do you run my code or txtempus ?

senza-lattosio commented 4 months ago

@harlock974 Thank you. Right now I'm actually using the 5V from GPIO, but I'm using a rpi zero WH; are you suggesting that using an rpi 3 will improve coverage?

Pi Zero has the same clocks than the Pi 3 so you should get the same range.

btw, Im just realizing now that your setup is a bit different from smeisner's: is it because of the changes you made in the code?

No, smeisner removed the 10 Ohms resistor because its Mosfet are more powerfull than mine. Except for this the circuits are the same. Do you run my code or txtempus ?

I'm running txtempus bc I discovered yours just now. Do you think that by using your code I will get improvements ? Of course by also changing the setup since Im using the attenuation pin right now)

Here's my ugly setup (sorry)

immagine

harlock974 commented 4 months ago

I'm running txtempus bc I discovered yours just now. Do you think that by using your code I will get improvements ? Of course by also changing the setup since Im using the attenuation pin right now)

Your setup is fine, that's experimenting !

I don't know if you will have better result but you could try. If it is a transistor in your circuit, just put a 4.7K resistor between its base and GPIO4 and remove the attenuation pin connection.

smeisner commented 4 months ago

@senza-lattosio Here's my txtempus PCB files (including Gerber files in the production folder). Please share any improvements with the group. TxtempusTransmitter.zip

The BOM has a column called LCSC Part number. This is for PCB assembly by jlcpcb.com. So you will need to modify these entries in the Kicad files before regenerating the BOM.

I am using KiCad V6.0, but you can import this project into KiCad 7. If you do, it will then be incompatible for anyone using 6 though.

senza-lattosio commented 4 months ago

@senza-lattosio Here's my txtempus PCB files (including Gerber files in the production folder). Please share any improvements with the group. TxtempusTransmitter.zip

The BOM has a column called LCSC Part number. This is for PCB assembly by jlcpcb.com. So you will need to modify these entries in the Kicad files before regenerating the BOM.

I am using KiCad V6.0, but you can import this project into KiCad 7. If you do, it will then be incompatible for anyone using 6 though.

Very much thankful for the share. Since i'm planning to place an order quite soon, will be glad to send spare PCBs to anyone who will ask so.

harlock974 commented 4 months ago

Hi guys What range do you get with Smeisner board ? I tried with DCF77 and pi zero, two 4.7nF, and get 20 cm range.

senza-lattosio commented 4 months ago

Hi guys What range do you get with Smeisner board ? I tried with DCF77 and pi zero, two 4.7nF, and get 20 cm range.

Hi, sorry for the late reply, I had to wait for my pcb to be shipped. Same here, about 20 cm range. The "old" setup still working with ~6 meters range.

Here is the short range setup: I just modified the gerber file and added 2 4.7 nF caps. immagine immagine immagine

In case someone needs the modified file are here, including bom and cpl HPT_pcb.zip

harlock974 commented 4 months ago

Thanks, I will cut the trace of the onboard antenna and connect a ferrite coil there. I should get the meters range.

senza-lattosio commented 4 months ago

Thanks, I will cut the trace of the onboard antenna and connect a ferrite coil there. I should get the meters range.

Right now with the "original" Spiess setup (transistor), txtempus executable and a ferrite coil I can get 6 meters range. I will try to replace the trace and the caps and see what happens (with your time-signal executable and only GPIO4 connected). Maybe I will get ~ 10 meters.

jrotaetxe commented 4 months ago

Remember... Not only the antenna, but the encapsulated ferrite.... So from C2 to the pin

davoau commented 3 months ago

@senza-lattosio Did you have any luck with getting 10M distance ? I have tried to download the HPT_pcb.zip from the link above but it doesn't work - is it correct or can you upload somewhere else Thanks David

UPDATE: I was able to download HPT_pcb.zip just now