Hero morale indicator with undead army

[Branikolog]

While leading full undead army hero has neutral morale indicator. I suggest always show morale Indicator, as if hero had at least 1 alive creature in his army. This would help to predict the morale of any creature joined. Ex: On a screenshot hero has expert leadership, granting +3 morale to all creatures. But Morale indicator shows neutral state, due to all undead creatures in hero's army. So if any alive creature join it would have +2 morale (As there's an undead troops in hero's army) So my suggestion is to show +2 morale indicator for this case. Also, info should include modifiers: Expert leadership(+3) as well as undead troops in army (-1) While leading full undead army hero should have a negative (-1) morale indicator always without other modifiers.

[LeHerosInconnu]

Hello @Branikolog,

I suggest always show morale Indicator, as if hero had at least 1 alive creature in his army. This would help to predict the morale of any creature joined.

No, it should not work that way. The interface must remain coherent. The morale indicator should indicate the current state of army morale.

If the player wants information about morale modifiers, he should consult the morale information window.

This has been made clear in this issue: https://github.com/ihhub/fheroes2/pull/2375. :)

[Branikolog]

Hi, @LeHerosInconnu! I was thinking about this suggestion a plenty of time. Let's discuss here! I hoped, you respond me and join the discussion in this new issue! :) In the example above hero's morale is high, no matter what type of army he leads, undead or not. But current indicator being neutral always confuses me, and I always have to check twice, before accepting any new creature in my army.

The morale indicator should indicate the current state of army morale.

I know, that undead creatures always have neutral morale, but for this case we have a special description in morale info: So, after all modificators and the type of morale being not neutral, we do always have a reminder, that it doesn't apply for undead. That's my suggestion.

[LeHerosInconnu]

@Branikolog.

Yes, but no. :)

The hero has secondary skill Leadership at the expert level, okay, but the morale indicator should indicate the current state of army morale.

This rule cannot be changed. This would mislead the player into believing that his army has high morale when it does not.

And there is only one click to view the morale modifiers. One very small click, is it already too much ? :D

[Branikolog]

And there is only one click to view the morale modifiers. One very small click, is it already too much ? :D

For this click we have to enter hero info window, and then exit it. :) So, it is too much work for me. :P

The hero has secondary skill Leadership at the expert level, okay, but the morale indicator should indicate the current state of army morale.

Well, if hero has any living creature, morale indicator would turn to positive (considering this example), while undead creatures will continue having neutral morale. So here we have a mess. )

This would mislead the player into believing that his army has high morale when it does not.

For this case we always have an reminder, that undeads are not affected by morale, and watching this reminder a couple of times player would remember the thing. But player will always has to check morale modificators, while accepting new creatures, if we continue using current system.

[LeHerosInconnu]

@Branikolog.

And there is only one click to view the morale modifiers. One very small click, is it already too much ? :D

For this click we have to enter hero info window, and then exit it. :) So, it is too much work for me. :P

In your example, you are already in the hero screen. :)

For the adventure map, this change in army morale could be indicated in the information window when the player right-clicks on a wandering troop on the adventure map while the hero is selected. This would avoid having to open (and close) the hero's screen. See: https://github.com/ihhub/fheroes2/issues/1391.

The hero has secondary skill Leadership at the expert level, okay, but the morale indicator should indicate the current state of army morale.

Well, if hero has any living creature, morale indicator would turn to positive (considering this example), while undead creatures will continue having neutral morale. So here we have a mess. )

Yes, but this is not the case, it is a "possible eventuality" and not the current state of the army's morale.

When a living troop will be integrated, the army's morale will be updated, and applied to living creatures during combat. This is the purpose of the morale indicator. Undead creatures are not affected by the morale during combat, this is a rule that the player must integrate.

This would mislead the player into believing that his army has high morale when it does not.

For this case we always have an reminder, that undeads are not affected by morale, and watching this reminder a couple of times player would remember the thing. But player will always has to check morale modificators, while accepting new creatures, if we continue using current system.

This is not a problem. It's even an improvement over the original game in that these modifiers were hidden when there were no living creatures in the hero's army. Now the player can see them even if there are only undead troops in the hero's army, which is a plus for making a decision whether or not to incorporate living troops into the hero's army.

Edit.

After thinking about it, I think it would be nice to be able to test it in game. :) Maybe it would be possible to test it as a "temporary" option?

I think it could work on the condition that there is a specific icon for the morale indicator when the army is composed only of undead troops, to indicate to the player that this is not the real current army morale: This screen is for explanatory purposes only.

[Branikolog]

When a living troop will be integrated, the army's morale will be updated, and applied to living creatures during combat. This is the purpose of the morale indicator. Undead creatures are not affected by the morale during combat, this is a rule that the player must integrate.

That's the point: Morale indicator updates AFTER hero receives new creature into his army. He may be surprised, when he see -3 morale for it... Let's imagine next scenario: We have a Hero with undead army. Nearby is some creatures willing to join. Here we go checking current morale. We see a neutral state. But now morale becomes a positive. It's a bit confusing, As hero always have some artifacts, skills or visits some objects, that could rise his morale, indicator will always be neutral, while having a full undead army. My suggestion is to show current (In this example) positive morale state. And owning an undead army morale penalty is always described in hero info window. And it's ok, player would learn this in a couple of days.

Between, your last suggestion is rather nice!

I think it could work on the condition that there is a specific icon for the morale indicator when the army is composed only of undead troops, to indicate to the player that this is not the real current army morale:

I imagine it like that: we have positive (in this example) morale indicator, but it has a difference from a current morale indicator (Like a small pretty skull you've placed there, or (my suggestion) we can draw morale indicators in a different color. Gray, for example.) So player would notice, that his morale state is high or low, but it doesn't apply due to some reasons, which he can read in hero info window.)

[LeHerosInconnu]

@Branikolog.

When a living troop will be integrated, the army's morale will be updated, and applied to living creatures during combat. This is the purpose of the morale indicator. Undead creatures are not affected by the morale during combat, this is a rule that the player must integrate.

That's the point: Morale indicator updates AFTER hero receives new creature into his army. He may be surprised, when he see -3 morale for it...

Yes, I see. :)

In addition to the information with the right click on a wandering troop (https://github.com/ihhub/fheroes2/issues/1391), information about the change in morale could also be added to the joining window.

And a small skull icon could also be added to the hero information window near the morale icons.

Between, your last suggestion is rather nice!

I think it could work on the condition that there is a specific icon for the morale indicator when the army is composed only of undead troops, to indicate to the player that this is not the real current army morale:

I imagine it like that: we have positive (in this example) morale indicator, but it has a difference from a current morale indicator (Like a small pretty skull you've placed there, or (my suggestion) we can draw morale indicators in a different color. Gray, for example.) So player would notice, that his morale state is high or low, but it doesn't apply due to some reasons, which he can read in hero info window.)

Yes, thanks. :)

I prefer the addition of the skull (to the grey color of the moral indicator), it is more representative of the undead.

[Branikolog]

information about the change in morale could also be added to the joining window.

It could...We will discuss it, when our team reach that issue and start analyzing it.

I prefer the addition of the skull (to the grey color of the moral indicator), it is more representative of the undead.

Well, it looks quite good in hero info window. But for micro icon, while clicking over hero on a world map it will look ridiculously small (like current neutral luck indicator, which made me spend lots of time, before I unraveled, what it was on the other side of scales, opposite to rainbow ), so player never know, what is it near morale, till he opens info.) :) Probably, we can hire an artist, so he can draw something more noticeable...

[LeHerosInconnu]

@Branikolog.

information about the change in morale could also be added to the joining window.

It could...We will discuss it, when our team reach that issue and start analyzing it.

Okay.

I prefer the addition of the skull (to the grey color of the moral indicator), it is more representative of the undead.

Well, it looks quite good in hero info window. But for micro icon, while clicking over hero on a world map it will look ridiculously small (like current neutral luck indicator, which made me spend lots of time, before I unraveled, what it was on the other side of scales, opposite to rainbow ), so player never know, what is it near morale, till he opens info.) :) Probably, we can hire an artist, so he can draw something more noticeable...

I haven't made any suggestions on the hero's information window yet (it's on hold), but it needs to be reworked. :) I find the Morale and Luck icons too small (like the hero's info window by the way). :D

I think keeping the same size for the skull (I also think the skull icon in the hero screen should be a little bit bigger than its current size) than in the hero screen would be enough.

[Branikolog]

@LeHerosInconnu Okay. Design for this new icon is debatable. At first, I want to hear all the team opinions regarding such morale indication.

[LeHerosInconnu]

@Branikolog.

@LeHerosInconnu Okay. Design for this new icon is debatable. At first, I want to hear all the team opinions regarding such morale indication.

Okay.

[a1exsh]

Seems to be still an issue:

I'd expect that artifacts do not affect undead army morale at all.

[LeHerosInconnu]

After thinking about it, I think that even the penalty "Some undead in group -1" should be taken into account and displayed when the army is only composed of undead creatures (as the morale is then a prediction, the undead creatures should also be taken into account). For the morale prediction graphic, why not just use the standard graphics but in grayscale or preferably in a rather light blue color, a bit like the blue of the War Troll ball or the blue of the Thunder Mace artifact, or the blue of the Mutant Zombie, or even better, the white and blue of the Bone Dragon (and Skeleton) which would remind the "bone" side of the undead.

In fheroes2: Blue color of the War Troll ball, and blue color of the Thunder Mace artifact.

Blue color of the Mutant Zombie, and white and blue colors of the Bone Dragon (and Skeleton).

Edit 2024/09/26.

In fheroes2: Illustration for predictive display of the penalty "Some undead in group -1" in the case of an army containing undead creatures: