default to Dutch, since this is our primary audience

barend-infi commented 1 year ago

In mijn ervaring verliezen gesprekken altijd wel wat nuance en diepte wanneer ze in een vreemde taal worden gevoerd. Bij Infi kiezen we er ook bewust voor om de Nederlandse voertaal aan te houden. Daarnaast bestaat ons primaire publiek uit (potentiële) klanten plus (potentiële) collega's. Waarom dan niet de Nederlandse taal gebruiken op way.infi.nl? Ik merkte in onze infi-way-workshop ook dat je toch een aantal keer de termen gaat vertalen om goed te begrijpen waar het over gaat. Een term zoals "Craft" heeft in mijn hoofd niet meteen hetzelfde effect als het woord "Ambacht".

netlify[bot] commented 1 year ago

Deploy Preview for the-infi-way ready!

Name	Link
Latest commit	1f2a8beb393dee5dac62aef4bfe002f1dd9d6739
Latest deploy log	https://app.netlify.com/sites/the-infi-way/deploys/6475fc41a7f0640008941629
Deploy Preview	https://deploy-preview-63--the-infi-way.netlify.app
Preview on mobile	Toggle QR Code... Use your smartphone camera to open QR code link.

To edit notification comments on pull requests, go to your Netlify site settings.

LucaScorpion commented 1 year ago

We have gone back on forth on this a few times, but eventually settled on English as the default. See also: https://github.com/infi-nl/the-infi-way/issues/38

iirc the main reason for that was to (potentially) appeal to a wider audience, and because it is and open-source project (even if currently it's mostly used in-house). So while I agree that currently Dutch-speaking devs are our primary audience, that is not the goal.

Ik merkte in onze infi-way-workshop ook dat je toch een aantal keer de termen gaat vertalen om goed te begrijpen waar het over gaat.

You can still use the Dutch variant for our own workshops, right? So you don't have to translate any terms there. Although admittedly the language switcher is currently not super obvious, but that's a work in progress ;)

barend-infi commented 1 year ago

iirc the main reason for that was to (potentially) appeal to a wider audience, and because it is and open-source project (even if currently it's mostly used in-house). So while I agree that currently Dutch-speaking devs are our primary audience, that is not the goal.

Dit heet in mooi Engels "premature optimization". Ik zou heel graag zien dat we dit heroverwegen. Stel je voor dat een potentiële sollicitant naar https://way.infi.nl/ browst. Die denkt meteen: holy shit die gasten sprekend vloeiend Engels, zelfs hun hele werkwijze is in het Engels. Al vind je dan uiteindelijk nog die taalswitch: het gaat er imho om dat de default Engels is dat klopt niet met hoe Infi in het echt is: er wordt gesuggereerd dat bij Infi de Engelse taal de default is. Het zou mij persoonlijk enorm afschrikken en ik zou ergens anders gaan solliciteren.

LucaScorpion commented 1 year ago

Tbh, if someone finds the Infi Way site, and the fact that it would be in English (or rather, that it defaults to English) would be enough reason not to apply at Infi, I'm not sure if it's a good fit :P Yes, at the office we speak Dutch, but we do have clients where being ~fluent (enough) in~ able to speak decent English is definitely a requirement. (Edit: besides, even at Dutch-speaking clients/projects, the code is in my experience generally still written in English, no?)

Dit heet in mooi Engels "premature optimization".

I disagree here, I wouldn't call it premature, but simply a step in the roadmap towards reaching a wider audience.

jeroenheijmans commented 1 year ago

Let's take the discussion offline and summarize here afterwards? In-person we're more likely to find a good resolution.

jeroenheijmans commented 1 year ago

In the off-chance that anyone outside of Infi is reading along here: we'll be finding a good way forward somewhere in August probably. If you really also want to chip in feel free to do so here or in a DM to me, and otherwise please sit tight. We'll update this PR and/or related issues with the resolution we pick.

jeroenheijmans commented 1 year ago

For future reference, we discussed this offline and here's the outcome.

At some point in the near future we would like to share this repository more widely with the community (and keep investing in that if it is found to be useful and gets picked up). At that point we want the repository and the workflow to be in English, so we'll already stick with English for markdown files, code, issues, PRs, discussions, etc. When we do a wider launch we might also want to create a separate domain for the community version of way.infi.nl, where the default language can be English for content too.

At Infi our default language is Dutch (although we'll happily work in English-speaking teams and for English-speaking clients), so we might also want to make that the default for way.infi.nl. But, now that the language toggle is far more prominent at the top of the page, a big gripe (that prompted opening this issue) was also already fixed.

For now we'll close this issue, as we're on the desired path (and have the desired quick fix with a prominent language toggle). When we'll try out a wider launch in the community, we may revisit the particular details. But that's for the future.

infi-nl / the-infi-way