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[olivia88]

Not trolling or flamebating the toxcore repo

-- @grayhatter

[alexbakker]

Not again... This is even more inaccurate than the previous ones.

And sorry for posting on toxcore repo

As you should be. Take this someplace else.

[optimumtact]

The neehposting is endless

[olivia88]

@Impyy

What's inaccurate? Can you develop on your arguments?

Also, there's nowhere else to take. This is a big concern of everyone and this is the place the community has more access to. Just look at the Tox subreddit and you'll see people demand explanations.

Don't enforce censorship by closing this! Isn't Tox about freedom of speech? Show it then. Let us talk and understand what's going on. Because as it stands right now, everybody is afraid of the situation.

Also I notice @GrayHatter wasn't mentioned on @subliun blog. What's your opinion on this, my old friend.

[stal888]

Oh, how this reminds me of the days when I was a wee lass

[ghost]

https://github.com/contact?report=olivia88

[olivia88]

@d9h02f Why do that? Are you a developer? If so can you explain what's going on the channels @subliun (former Antox developer) mentioned, like #tox-secret? Because for us in the community it looks like something fishy is going on... Almost a dozen devs quit or were kicked out in the last months. How can we back up this project like this, without any explanation! Also I'm not breaking any rule so I if I stop posting here is because @irungentoo enforced censorship and blocked me. (he's done it in the past with people I know, but let's hope he's more mature this time and actually talks to the community instead of banning people)

[Zer0-One]

This poster is so disconnected from what's actually happening that I'm not sure it would even be productive to respond, except to say that you shouldn't be polluting the core repo with this garbage. Please take your hastily manufactured drama somewhere else. Closing this issue isn't censorship, it's proper maintenance.

[olivia88]

Too many lies in this one too

-- @grayhatter

[LittleVulpix]

I wish people would stop posting these things on the toxcore repo esp. when irungentoo is sleeping or not around. Go talk @ irc or on the dedicated neehposting github repo. Not here, this is code repo. Whether or not your concerns are valid is irrelevant, this is a repository for code. I agree with @Zer0-One - closing this is maintenance, not censorship. Go post there, not here.

[olivia88]

@LittleVulpix that repo you mentioned has 2 followers, this one has thousands. Putting this issue on a ghost repo where nobody sees it is a bad attempt of hiding it. Please don't do this. Tox is still about freedom of speech, right? Right?

[nachfuellbar]

I'm just a user but even if this concerns should be invalid, i think this repo is the only place more people can follow this It's sad even the second developer of antox retired from this project and nobody seem to care

[dangowrt]

@installgen2 can you elaborate more what exact properties you disliked and/or wanted to illustrate with that picture? (the post with a supposedly insulting picture was sub-sequently removed)

[olivia88]

@installgen2 our old friend and long term (2 years) Antox developer @subliun gave a lengthy, well thought and reasonable explanation about what happened. You gave us the picture of a greedy merchant and some bullshit sentences about personal traits? How about you address @subliun 's points and gives real answers? You're only making this worse for the foundation.

The poor guy worked for you during 2 years as the Android Tox developer and this is how talk about him? Explain yourself.

[olivia88]

@installgen2 who talked about jewish people? Don't try to avoid our questions.

[olivia88]

Well, looks like you don't want to be taken serious. Way to represent the Tox Foundation!

[nachfuellbar]

I don't think i want to follow this project anymore if this is the way to deal with concerns Goodbye from a formerly interested user

[dcharles525]

This organization is cancer to the world. I guess OTR over XMPP is good enough for now.

[dangowrt]

@installgen2 you never said what? like in someone has been using my account to post stuff without me knowing about it? or are you suggesting that someone has mis-quoted you? if so, please point out and correct what was written.

[olivia88]

@dangowrt isn't that exactly what they said they would do after an ex-developer stole thousands of donated money? Looks like the situation didn't change.

@notsecure quit @Astonex quit @notadecent quit @mahkoh quit @Proplex quit @slvr quit @naxuroqa quit @henotba quit @zetok quit @FullName quit @urras quit @sonOfRa quit

The list goes on...

Besides @irungentoo and a few friends he knows personally, everybody end up being betrayed by the Tox Foundation (even has money stolen or is harassed) and in the end of the day you still think nothing's wrong?

[olivia88]

How many important people have quit now? Jesus... when this many people quit don't you think it's no longer the problem of the quitters but the organization itself?

[greenbagels]

@installgen2 well if you want to play that game, you said you never said that, but by saying that, you said that.

[mahkoh]

neehposting

lmao tbh fam

[deltabeard]

This thread is about the Tox Foundation justifying their position and actions. Please stay on topic and wait for them to answer.

This whole gossiping about who said what is not useful here. We want answers from the main developers.

lmao tbh fam

lol get out m9

[olivia88]

@installgen2 again you didn't explain a damn thing. I'm done playing your games. Will wait a real dev like @irungentoo come and give his explanation about what's going on. TOX? More like TOXic

[dangowrt]

@olivia88 I agree, the organizational problems here are obvious. imho that's no longer even worth the debate. what's at stake is the reputation of the developers involved, derived from their presumed motivation and integrity. never blame on mallice which can sufficiently be explained by stupidity (or naiivity, or average boys-club power games, or you-name-it).

[olivia88]

I fully agree with @deltabeard

@subliun showed us his point of view = https://antox.me/my-time-at-tox.html @Astonex showed his point of view = https://markwinter.me/my-time-tox/ @notadecent showed his point of view = https://github.com/irungentoo/toxcore/issues/1186 @urras showed his point of view through a log from irungentoo = https://archive.is/Y6LEw

Now let's see how the Tox Foundation answers. We need an official answer, because things aren't looking good.

[olivia88]

What blog post? The last one is from November about API changes.

[olivia88]

Scrolling down brings even older posts. Are you trolling or what? I can't believe @irungentoo let you speak in the name of his Tox Foundation. Whatever, I'll wait for the real developers to come and discuss the issue.

[dcharles525]

so @installgen2 I am guessing this was you? https://boards.4chan.org/g/thread/52386194/the-most-successful-g-project-tox-is-being-bashed

[HostFat]

Is this project decentralized? Then you should fork it now :)

[HostFat]

@olivia88 If it isn't, is it possible to make it decentralized? What is missing? Can a fork be a good way to give it a new life?

[JFreegman]

Please don't tag me in your troll threads neeh.

[dangowrt]

@installgen2 you didn't explain anything, there was nothing I could have noticed others couldn't. @HostFat @olivia88 regarding technical decentralization: the thing to review here is the election and choice of supernodes. some sort of NAT traversal using TCP and actually globally IPv4-reachable nodes is unavoidable when wanting to offer a service on todays NAT'ed IPv4-only mobile internet access services. (remember? you always had to "open up those ports" to get P2P stuff working properly. On a mobile connection, there is just no way to do that.) There is no other way to get end-to-end communication, and this issue has been discussed as part of most other (mobile) P2P development efforts.

I highly recommend everyone interested in an honest debate to subscribe to receive email notifications, especially for heated debates like this. I say this because posts on github can be edited by the people who posted them without leaving any trace of the changes (very unlike the rest of github) visible on the web-ui. When subscribing to email notifications, you at least get to see what was originally said (and replied to) and don't end-up with gibberish...

Others started editing their posts and stuff looks a different than it did before, I now do so as well...

[mahkoh]

https://antox.me/my-time-at-tox.html

stal and zero-one voted against me being on the committee simply because they did not like me personally, Jfreegman voted against me because my ideas were different from his (he told me this himself when I asked about it)

Every major client developer who requested an email was given a @tox.chat email address, bar me.

neehposting aside, why do you have to bully people so hard that they start to blog about it? This is really mean if it's true.

[JFreegman]

@mahkoh It's not true, he seems to have a victim complex. He was voted against because of his unconstructive behaviour and the fact that he wants to centralize Tox. And we don't give tox.chat emails out freely to anyone who asks. Tux3 doesn't even have one.

[olivia88]

@JFreegman but did @tux3 ask for one? Was any developer with more than 1 year working on a client denied an email?

[JFreegman]

We actually gave one to IRIXuser then had to take it away from him when we realized he could read organization emails in our catchall.

As a side note, Subliun announced months ago that he had to leave the project in January 2016 due to school obligations.

[optimumtact]

I don't think those emails are even for anyone who asks, they're for voting group/infrastructure users

[stqism]

@olivia88 Still at it neeh? Jesus, you pick a new name every bit of drama to make these shitty posts as a new person.

Don't you have something better to do than shitpost on the internet your entire life? You know, work or school? No? of course not.

Could you please crawl out of your fucking hole in Brazil and do something with your life that doesn't involve mentioning me? I get a new email every damn time.

[suhr]

@subliun and @zetok kick

Oh hell. What have I missed so far?

[stqism]

@olivia88 Neeh, it's a corporate shell based out of Los Angeles, CA that served its purpose and then fell in to obscurity.

tox-sercret isn't the Tox Foundation you half-wit.

[olivia88]

@stqism How do we call the Tox leaders? @irungentoo @Zer0-One etc ?

[stqism]

I'd call them @irungentoo and @Zer0-One but apparently that's too difficult for you.

[optimumtact]

I don't see why making a decision to not focus on setting up an fdroid repo or to run a name look up service is harassing others.

We had other more important infrastructure to focus on and limited time and money to achieve results

[CRImier]

Oh wow, and I was developing a client. Better wait until everything is clear between you all guys.

[LuccoJ]

@JFreegman Regardless of all the other issues, the maintainer of the one "official" client for one of the most important architectures used by people is hardly "just anyone who asks". I think giving @subliun this sort of appellation in public kind of confirms that he was being treated as inferior to other client developers.

[LuccoJ]

@optimumtact It's easy to have limited money when the money you are supposed to have was stolen by an ex-member, isn't it? ;-)

[optimumtact]

Yes well there's nothing I can do about that now, and it's rude of you to insinuate that it's somehow my fault when I've busted my ass off to get infrastructure back together out of pocket.

[netbsduser]

@olivia88, yours is a fantastic concoction of half-truths, fabrications, and insults. It is a wonder I am taking the time to reply to someone who has made clear their determination to stampede over anything Tox ever does. It is a testament to the patience of Tox developers and maintainers that anyone is responding to this abhorrent provocation.

The Tox developer @subliun stopped working for Tox after he was disrespected.

A lot of people claim to have been disrespected. @subliun went so far as to disrespect me in their blogpost, belittling my extensive efforts on XwinTox. I won't pretend that everyone gets along fine, but generally things go well unless people decide that they must be constantly complimented. Then there are problems.

@Astonex was another developer that quit a long time ago too.

[REDACTED BY REQUEST]

The Tox leader @irungentoo has total control over the organization according to the law (tox is registered on the government). He and his personal friends put on charge, like @Zer0-One and @JFreegman are very toxic for the open-source movement and are trying to (at least that's how I see) profit from Tox for themelves. Over and over they've been warned about @stqism and others

This is a fantasy. No one 'warned' anyone about @stqism or, for that matter, about anyone else. And if you think anyone imagines profit in Tox, I suggest you try listening to the people who are doing their best to serve the community. People like those you listed. As to @Zer0-One and @JFreegman, zero-one has a proven track record in community leadership, and JFreegman is the major force behind one of the first and most popular Tox clients.

Besides, the security concerns were IGNORED for a long time. They continue to advertise Tox as secure even though it's still alpha. This is UNETHICAL and people are getting hurt. Many developers saw this and quit, others were kicked from the project. But in the end someone has to stand out and reveal how toxic this has become.

Tox is a Secure, Free, Fun Messenger. It is a scientific fact that Tox is secure. No one is getting 'hurt' at all. This is fantasy.

What the community needs now is an explanation from the developers. What's the deal? What's going on? Why kick @subliun and @zetok like that? Are everyone in the Tox Foundation fine with that? Is @tux3 aware of what's going on? The community is the one to suffer.

subliun was not kicked out. They left voluntarily.

We are losing faith in Tox! How can we trust all this? [...] personal information from users leaked

No such incident has ever occured.

And sorry for posting on toxcore repo, but this is obviously the only place the community follows and this is a HUGE concern of everybody, so let's discuss the matter like adults and not enforce censorship by closing the issue, ok

My personal preference is for the deletion outright of this nefarious provocation.

[deltabeard]

No such incident has ever occured.

I guess that settles it. This (and some other) misinformation was what had me concerned. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over. Maybe just lock this thread in case someone asks the same thing in the future?

Also @stqism, you're comments here aren't too friendly, yet wasn't it yourself that caused most of this mess?