Conjure Minor Elementals

[itteerde]

I think limiting it to Melee Attacks would be enough. I am not aware of any ways to explode Melee Attack numbers with neither Concentration nor Action Surge.

The best I can see with only Melee Attack is the Valor Bard dipping two Level Fighter. Probably should do the math.

• [ ] do math: Valor Bard, dipping Fighter
• [ ] do math: Bladesinger, dipping Fighter

[itteerde]

Should probably have a problem statement, too:

conjureScorching[level_]:=level(2d[6]+(level-3)2d[8]);
Table[{level,conjureScorching[level]},{level,4,9}]
(* {{4, 64}, {5, 125}, {6, 204}, {7, 301}, {8, 416}, {9, 549}} *)

[itteerde]

I think just restricting it to Melee Attack might do it, too (alternative to the current perceived internet goto). Not sure if that is the right way, but the numbers should work, too. Probably still best to have it cap at three times per Turn. I don't like what seems to be the goto for most currenty, making the scaling 1d8, as I don't see an easy way for Druid to get any nice damage with it then. And I do like the idea to open up a new fighting option for Druid pre Level 17.

[itteerde]

At Spell Level 4 it is actually pretty bad, except again with Scorching Ray. So definately no nerf all across the board. Really broken are so far only Scorching Ray and Valor Bard with Eldritch Blast (the latter being all about just breaking this, so not even sure if that would qualify as needing a fix, Scorching Ray abuse does).

[itteerde]

Don't go the Melee route. Starry Form can use Conjure Minor Elementals. Don't nerf it for Druid (except Scorching Ray, which would be 2014 Wildfire or very involved Multiclassing)

[itteerde]

So I am back to limiting it to three procs per Turn

[itteerde]

"You conjure spirits from the Elemental Planes that flit around you in a 15-foot Emanation for the duration. Until the spell ends, any up to three attacks you make on a turn deals an extra 2d8 damage when you hit a creature in the Emanation. This damage is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack).

In addition, the ground in the Emanation is Difficult Terrain for your enemies.

Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The damage increases by 2d8 for each spell slot level above 4."

[itteerde]

Valor Bard 11 (dips Fighter 1)

3(d[6]+5+2*2d[8])+(d[6]+5)
88

2(d[6]+5)+2(d[6]+5+2*2d[8])
70

is upcast for three procs

3(d[6]+5+2d[8])+(d[6]+5)
61

2(d[6]+5)+2(d[6]+5+2d[8])
52

is without upcast

[itteerde]

• I think it might require an extra case for Valor Bard. The problem seems to be more that Valor Bard is dealing the full Fighter damage at 10 -- only getting beaten by the 5th Attack at 11 by Fighter -- which no nerf of a spell put on-top of that will fix.
• Valor Bard (dipping one for Weapon Mastery) is close to broken at best seems to be the lesson here. It is still broken no matter what you cast -- from Magical Weapon over Spirit Shroud, Holy Weapon to Conjure Minor Elemental -- all cases broken, just in different amounts.
• Can we make that for Bladesinger, too? Think it is just the same, right? (yes, but Valor Bard rubs it in dipping Warlock and exploding one Attack into Edlritch Blast)
• if CME would not contrast the case you might not stumble over the rest, but unless I am having a brain fart Valor Bard and Baldesinger with one level dip for Weapon Mastery are the best damage dealers sustained (and Wizard Scorching Ray abusing CME otherwise), where Valor Bard can do it with a wide selection, while Bladesinger needs CME or Spirit Shroud.
• and if that is true breaking the nice new Druid toy without fixing the above would not be an improvement but even worse

[itteerde]

@PhDaveMil:

You conjure spirits from the Elemental Planes that flit around you in a 15-foot Emanation for the duration. Until the spell ends, any attack you make while using Wildshape or with a Spell Attack from a spell found on the Druid Spell List deals an extra 2d8 damage when you hit a creature in the Emanation. This damage is Acid, Cold, Fire, or Lightning (your choice when you make the attack).

[itteerde]

(* CME, Wild Shape (Elephant), Attack *)
moondruid[level_]:=With[{ss=Min[Ceiling[level/2],9]},Join[{0},Table[2(2d[8]+6+(ss-6)2 2d[8])+(2d[10]+6+(ss-6)2 2d[8]),9]]];
Table[{level,moondruid[level]},{level,12,20,2}]
{{12,{0,{47},{47},{47},{47},{47},{47},{47},{47},{47}}},{14,{0,101,101,101,101,101,101,101,101,101}},{16,{0,155,155,155,155,155,155,155,155,155}},{18,{0,209,209,209,209,209,209,209,209,209}},{20,{0,209,209,209,209,209,209,209,209,209}}}

think this is okay. note that the to-hit is the form's (I believe), so the higher levels become big swing and miss, the precise math needing the new tools (but certainly worse than a fixed True Polymorph Blue Abishai while this takes an Opportunity Attack every Turn, is Melee, cannot do other stuff, cannot fly, ...)

[irmejnah]

trying more detailed/readable explanation in wiki