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jacob404 / promod-future

GNU General Public License v3.0
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We need a portable test environment #234

Open rpdelaney opened 8 years ago

rpdelaney commented 8 years ago

Due to issues finding a stable testing platform, e.g. described in #230.

Attano commented 8 years ago

Download free VMware player, install Ubuntu on it, configure the L4D2 server, release the image, profit. Best portable testing platform one could ask for without paying a cent.

jbzdarkid commented 8 years ago

Benefits of VMs:

Costs of VMs:

The other option is a build script, i.e. we host some shell script on a server (could be off of a public git repo) which downloads the latest versions from the web of whatever we need. It probably can install l4d2 server, too.

Benefits of a build script:

Costs of a build script:

Attano commented 8 years ago

Why would a developer buy a hosted L4D2 server, when a VPS is a lot more flexible and cheaper? A developer who is unable to set up a VPS with L4D2 from a preconfigured image shouldn't even be contributing with anything in the first place. Otherwise you'll be reliving 4.5 deja-vus all over again. Basic Linux commands aren't rocket science.

Also, how is the cost of updating it high? You could easily build an auto-update procedure right inside the VM image, in a script that starts the L4D2 server for example.

Distributing it can be done through P2P(static torrent), since the size of the image would probably be too big for most online file hostings.

jbzdarkid commented 8 years ago

Why would a developer buy a hosted L4D2 server

This is not for developers entirely, this would also be for new server hosts. There's no point in creating a platform for testing and then allowing/encouraging others to use a completely different one.

You could easily build an auto-update procedure right inside the VM image

So you're picturing a shell script to update the server... which is effectively the same as a script to install the server, save a few instructions.

Distributing it can be done through P2P(static torrent)

I don't think that many people want to set up a bittorrent client on their server, nor is this possible when using a host.

Edit: Misinterpreted the distributing comment, updated response.

Attano commented 8 years ago

They are supposed to download it on their PC, then upload on their server. Or build a shell script that does that for them. git clone repo; cd repo; ./launch

I have a question for you. Have you ever installed/updated a server through SteamCMD? It takes roughly 5 seconds to check for updates, see that there are none, and proceed to launching the server. Putting that action on top of the script, right before the launch per-se, is hardly a torture for anyone.

P.S. I'm not talking about hosted gameservers anymore. I couldn't care less about them. Owners of competitive servers are supposed to be above average in my opinion. If they are unable to learn, they are not fit for the task and should stick to vanilla.

P.P.S. This issue is talking about test environments, not spoon feeding potential server owners. Making things universal is OK, but only as long as that doesn't create artificial obstacles for yourself.

jbzdarkid commented 8 years ago

Of the current server hosts, I don't know any who use a hosted option. But I know of people who have communicated to me that they would buy a hosted server, if we were able to support it. If you don't want to talk about it; don't. There's plenty of other people in this repo who can talk to me about it.

As for updating: yes, most start scripts have an update command in them. Since that's the same between options, it's not actually what I was talking about. I was talking about upgrading the images, specifically with regard to plugins / extensions.

Attano commented 8 years ago

As I said it already, this is not the right thing to do, whether you agree with me or not. It's a fact.

The ideology of making everything as easy as "apt-get update" is cool, but terribly inappropriate here. You can simplify the process of installing/updating the server to the minimum, but you cannot simplify the process of hosting and mantaining it. By spoonfeeding all the "admins" that want to host their own servers because they think it's cool to not have to behave anymore(because nobody can ban you and because you can ban anyone yourself etc.), you're setting up grounds for getting bitten in the ass by your own approach.

As soon as something fucks up(and it will), guess who are the "admins" gonna complain to? The notion of googling/resolving issues on your own is alien to those people. They will expect YOU to go and fix their shit for them, to spoon feed them a solution, FOR FREE, out of your own free time, because they know that you love doing that. If you dare to refuse, you will become their worst enemy and they will trash talk you behind your back for the remainder of your internet carrier.

“Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.” ― Otto von Bismarck

jbzdarkid commented 8 years ago

People are not robots, you cannot say they will do something as a fact. Your experience notwithstanding, it is not for you to decide how this repo, this team, nor its members act / operate. Nor is it for me. Nor is for jacob, though his say I believe counts for a fair bit more than yours or mine do.

Similarly, I'm not ignoring your experience. I don't intend to advertise my services, paid or not. I don't expect 20 new server hosts to show up "because it just got easier", but I do expect that large-scale upgrades (think operating system, sourcemod version) to go more smoothly with a better-defined installation process.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." ― Anonymous English proverb

jbzdarkid commented 8 years ago

Yes, this issue was originally about testing environments. You suggested we "release the image", which I interpreted as distributing a build / package. Regardless, it's a conversation we should have.

Attano commented 8 years ago

LMFAO dude, the fucking irony in that quote of yours. You're exactly trying to give them a fish, whereas I'm trying to MAKE them learn how to fish. Just think about it.

Sorry, can't continue this topic anymore. Too hilarious.

rpdelaney commented 8 years ago

Need for this was evidenced in #255.