Tweak Health Bonus in some way to fix passing pills for extra points

[jbzdarkid]

Was this not fixed? I thought pills gave a static 50, now.

[MattNF]

Nope.

[jacob404]

visor and I came up with that solution for the eq scoring but it never got ported to the original health bonus

[Attano]

I got a better idea. ^

[HighCookie]

That would also be my preferred option as well. However

It's a drastic change for promod and often difficult to explain. There will be lots of "Their team had barely any health but still had lots of bonus" comments. I also think the amount of damage required for the damage bonus to get to 0 should be put up slightly over what is currently in the config, so that teams are alive with 0 bonus even less frequently. This should better emulate the types of bonus bleeding survivors would receive in promod, plus It will reduce the cases where both teams run out of bonus but still make distance / saferoom.

There is also another scoring system that is like EQ but closer to Promod that 2 Australian guys created. It's basiclly, EQ scoring but all damage to temp reduces damage bonus including bleeding, fall damage and friendly fire (is that already included in EQ?, I'm not sure). Which I don't know if I like the double punishment, being slow, taking more hits and losing bonus with time but it does emulated promod scoring even better while still not putting up bonus for pills.

I can put you in contact with the 2 guys that made it if interested, one of them made it for a campaign / confogl mode that he made (like my hard cookie but not shitty and actually a lot of fun) which I think he posting to l4dnation in the coming weeks.

[MattNF]

I like 50 points per pill. Or, more ideally, tie it to the map's distance points. A map worth 400 points will grant 40pts per pill, 500 points 50pts per pill, etc

[HighCookie]

is 50 around how many points a person gets if they pick up pills with no incaps but low health on a 500 distance map?,

I do like that it gives value to pills and may create another meta game around trying to reach the saferoom while slow with pills. Adds a risk / reward. It does fix the issues with pills being passed around as well.

I don't really like the idea of effectively making bonus effectively 2.4 * distance, this may possibly exaggerate the difference between teams.

Pill placement on the map will have a bigger effect on the score.

It adds another disadvantage to a black and white person. They bleed, they can't be incapped, they could be slow or other people in the team might be slow and now on top of that they will be converting 50 points of pills to ?20? points of health and bleeding it out.

[jbzdarkid]

I mean the obvious solution is to pretend they've popped their pills, i.e. add 50 temp to their temp hp.

[jbzdarkid]

Oh right, that's what causes this in the first place facepalm At present, if you pass pills from someone with 2 incaps to someone with 0, the temp they "gain" is worth more. In other words, pills value is variable depending on incap count of who is holding them. 0 incaps: .30625* 50 = 15.3125 points 1 incap: .175* 50 = 8.75 points 2 incaps: .1* 50 = 5 points Idea: Find player with most incaps, award pill points based on that value.

[HighCookie]

I don't like this idea, it makes bonus non-linear in a bad way, everyone on no incaps vs a team where 1 person is on no incaps everyone else bw vs a team where everyone is 1 incap.

[Attano]

I believe this is why the original author decided to use incap count factors.

[jbzdarkid]

Ok, so is this just an acceptable flaw in the HB calculation?

[HighCookie]

the only way you could make it balanced using this method is always making pills worth a non-incapped bonus, regardless. So that they are worth the same amount of any team / any player. You could also argue it adds some risk / reward style play that might add interesting meta to looking after pills with low health.

This still does not fix the issue that infected can do damage to a survivor incap them, then when the team picks them up they are worth more bonus. So the infected, with their attack, while getting damage on survivors, increased the bonus of the survivor team.

There is a fix for both these issues, use hybrid and alter DB/HB split and damage threshold until its a good approximation of current scoring. which I think would mostly involve lowering DB (increase HB) and increased damage threshold.

[Attano]

They won't use it.

[jbzdarkid]

The "incap for bonus" isn't easily fixed, and probably shouldn't be. A 30hp b/w survivor is at many times more valuable than a 1hp 0 incap survivor, since they won't get scratched down. It depends if the other team is looking to wipe or deal damage.

Also, my ledge-hang testing reveals that the damage comes off temp first. Should we change that?

[HighCookie]

They are more valuable that's correct so they don't deserve not only to be faster and be able to take more damage before going down, but on top of that get more bonus. All after eating damage from infected.

[jbzdarkid]

I don't see a particular problem with just making pills worth 10% map distance, since they're currently worth 15 perm (7.5 * map distance overall) if I'm doing my back-of-the hand math right.

[jbzdarkid]

Just changing it so pills are always valued at 0 incap temp. If you have 100 health, pills have no value. If you have 80 health, pills are worth 40% (20/50).

Edit: Ok, well this doesn't quite fix the issue, since then if someone has > 50 health, it's more valuable to pass their pills to a teammate.

[jbzdarkid]

Ok well fuck it. Pills grant the equivalent of 50 temp health, irregardless of your current health or incap count.

[jbzdarkid]

c25b0d3

[HighCookie]

so getting to saferoom with full HP and 4 pills will now get you more bonus? in comparison to full HP and no pills

[jbzdarkid]

Yeah couldn't think of a good way to deal with that.