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jcsteh / osara

OSARA: Open Source Accessibility for the REAPER Application
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Unable to use navigation hotkeys in Notes window #825

Closed ptorpey closed 1 year ago

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

I started using the Notes window available in Reaper. The action to open the Notes window I am using is: SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window

From the actions list it appears that there might also be lots of other notes windows available like notes for items, notes for tracks, etc.

The problem is that when in the Notes dialog, the standard navigation hotkeys for navigating through a document are being captured as if the TCP was open.

For example, pageup/pagedown move back/forward a measure instead of going back/forward through the document. Similar for the Hoem and End keys, control+home and control+end, etc.

Would be niced if such navigation commands worked in such editable dialogs or fields.

--Pete

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

It'd benefit more users if this was shored up by Cockos. I'll pass it along.

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

@ptorpey, can you re-check page keys and tell me whether they behave differently with and without Snowman's scripts running? With NVDA here I'm not getting timeline navigation as you've described, but I've found another non-standard behaviour where I can't scroll between pages with arrow keys. That's an interesting one because I'm instantly seeing uses for it, but decades of convention says no.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Okay, I should have thoroughly tested all of the navigation keys instead of just testing a few and assuming they were all broken.

In summary it seems that navigation/selection commands in the Notes edit field seem to work except when using special keys such as control.

Don’t know if I missed any navigation commands.

There also seem to be notes for other things such as object. For example, the action:

Item: Show notes for items...

Presumably shows notes for an item. Interestingly, the control key + nav navigation hotkey seem to work okay in at least this notes dialog. I haven’t tested or searched for all of the other types of Notes dialogs.

As an aside, the main Notes dialog could be useful for people when they want to keep notes about a particular project linked to the project and readily accessible. I set the hotkey alt+Y to the action:

SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window

To get to this quickly. I was surprised that none of the types of Notes views were available in the “View” pull-down menu. Maybe a suggestion to Cockos.

--Pete

--Pete

From: ScottChesworth @.> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2022 5:06 AM To: jcsteh/osara @.> Cc: ptorpey @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Unable to use navigation hotkeys in Notes window (Issue #825)

@ptorpey https://github.com/ptorpey , can you re-check page keys and tell me whether they behave differently with and without Snowman's scripts running? With NVDA here I'm not getting timeline navigation as you've described, but I've found another non-standard behaviour where I can't scroll between pages with arrow keys. That's an interesting one because I'm instantly seeing uses for it, but decades of convention says no.

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ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

I think what's going on is, mappings that aren't global scope aren't making it through to those edit fields as expected. When I unassigned those actions, navigation improved. Obviously that's not a viable solution. Conversation with Cockos is already in progress. Will leave this open and report back when I know more.

jcsteh commented 1 year ago

Do those keys work in REAPER multi-line edit fields like the one in the FX dialog? It's slightly possible that this is deliberate (or at least a side effect of intended behaviour) in SWS.

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

They don't work there unless unassigned nope. Also, neither does Enter work there here on Windows even though it's identified as a multi-line field. Also also, you're on holiday, stop being useful! :)

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

So after consulting/confusing Justin and a rogue appearance of an off-duty Jamie, it turns out this was us all along. DOH! Seems someone got a bit carried away with the scope setting on our key map. I'm gonna go through and reassign a bunch of stuff with Normal scope which should fix the majority of navigation issues raised here. Cockos are looking at Control+Backspace to erase by word because that doesn't work yet. Gonna need to get some testing on these scope adjustments to make sure we're not impacting anything by enabling better navigation.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Thanks for following up with Justin. Do you think it is worth adding an Osara defined hotkey to open up some form of the Notes? Is that a feature that many people would make use of (or do they even know about it)?

I was amazed to learn just how many variants of notes windows there are. In addition to the one that raised this issue:

SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window

there are also the following:

: SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (extra project notes) SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (extra project notes), State: off : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (global notes) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (item notes) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (marker names) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (marker subtitles) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (marker/region names) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (marker/region subtitles) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (project notes) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (region names) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (region subtitles) : SWS/S&M: Open/close Notes window (track notes)

I don’t know if any of these are tied together or if they are completely separate. I also have no idea how a sighted person might even know of the existence of some of these specialized notes. Not many of these appear in any of the Reaper menus.

--Pete

--Pete

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

Way too many variants and not enough data on adoption for us to map IMO.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Way too many variants and not enough data on adoption for us to map IMO.

[PT] Agreed. I do wonder though, whether many people are aware of the notes option at all. Personally, I am happy to use the one Notes option since it is one easy place to go to find notes about a project. I did notice that there is an option in the Project Settings dialog to have the Notes dialog open automatically when a project loads if a user is interested in that. People can also map an unused keystroke (as I do) to toggle that notes dialog open/closed. If you get the keystroke navigation stuff straightened out I think we can close this issue. Thanks again.

--Pete

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ptorpey commented 1 year ago

If there winds up being a Reaper dev build with some of these fixes to be able to use navigation keys in the notes dialog, let me know and I’ll beat on it. I’m making more and more use of that notes dialog. Very handy.

Thanks.

--Pete

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

we're not waiting on a dev build from Cockos, it's changes to our Windows key map that are required to shore this one up. Someone's gotta go through and reset all bindings relevant to text navigation, making sure that they're standard scope. I'll try to get to it later today.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

My misunderstanding. I’ll look for a notice on GITHub. Thanks.

--Pete

From: ScottChesworth @.> Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2023 10:25 PM To: jcsteh/osara @.> Cc: ptorpey @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Unable to use navigation hotkeys in Notes window (Issue #825)

we're not waiting on a dev build from Cockos, it's changes to our Windows key map that are required to shore this one up. Someone's gotta go through and reset all bindings relevant to text navigation, making sure that they're standard scope. I'll try to get to it later today.

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RDMurray commented 1 year ago

@ScottChesworth I got the latest snapshot and can't find any global keys in the keymap. They are listed with "(global)" in the page generated by shift+F1.

I think this is an SWS bug. If you access project notes from the project properties dialog, or item notes using the built-in reaper action all the keys listed above work as expected.

The rest of the notes actions bring up a window provided by SWS which have the problem.

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

Yeah, realised I was on the wrong track tinkering with this earlier, just haven't had time to update the thread. Here, it seems to be any combination involving Control that doesn't behave as expected. Could that have anything to do with the recent change around how the control key is handled? I didn't really grasp what that PR changed.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

If you access project notes from the project properties dialog, or item notes using the built-in reaper action all the keys listed above work as expected.

The rest of the notes actions bring up a window provided by SWS which have the problem.

[PT] Verified here. Control+Keys do not work as they should when bringing up notes using the SWS action, but editing notes in the Project Settings / Notes dialog does work fine.

Two additional comments:

  1. When navigating the Project Settings, it would be nice if control+tab and control+shift+tab would move to the next and previous tabs as with most other multi-tab dialogs. Currently it takes lots of tabbing to move from tab to tab dialog. Is this something Cockos could fix?
  2. I noticed that although control+keys work in the Project Settings / Notes dialog as they should without the JAWS scripts running, the behavior is not working correctly with the JAWS scripts running. Once we figure out the SWS problem with notes and if it can be rectified or not, I can get in touch with Jim about this.

--Pete

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

Since this is an SWS bug, should it be fixed in SWS? This would mean waiting for an SWS release. Alternatively we could work around it in Osara, in the same way as the transient detection settings dialog.

Either way, we need a list of keys that should be handled by the dialog. Let me know if I missed any:

Control+backspace doesn't work when handled by the dialog for some reason. This is also the case for the notes in project properties.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Additional keys that should work in an edit window. I believe these work when not using the JAWS scripts but do not work if using the JAWS scripts:

As I said, once we think we have a fix or direction , I can talk to Jim about those.

I didn’t realize SWS was ever updated any more. The last update I see on the Reaper dev page is:

2019-08-09

Is SWS a dead duck in the water? Who actually maintains that these days?

From: RDMurray @.> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2023 5:47 AM To: jcsteh/osara @.> Cc: ptorpey @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Unable to use navigation hotkeys in Notes window (Issue #825)

Since this is an SWS bug, should it be fixed in SWS? This would mean waiting for an SWS release. Alternatively we could work around it in Osara, in the same way as the transient detection settings dialog.

Either way, we need a list of keys that should be handled by the dialog. Let me know if I missed any:

Control+backspace doesn't work when handled by the dialog for some reason. This is also the case for the notes in project properties.

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RDMurray commented 1 year ago

The last commit to SWS on github was May 7 2022. I don't think it is dead, but releases are quite infrequent.fixing this in SWS would be much easier than working around it in Osara.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

I wonder since Cockos does support project notes if it is worth asking them to support:

  1. Opening the project notes via an action (rather than having to dig down into the Project Settings / Notes dialog), and
  2. Offering the user’s choice of editor for opening notes (as they do with editing Actions, etc.)

The various other SWS open notes actions are for things like item notes, marker and region notes, etc., and are likely of less utility. But the project notes can be very useful for keeping notes about a project with the project.

--Pete

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

Support for Control+Backspace needs to come from Cockos. Already raised it with Justin.

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

Ive reported this issue to SWS and will probably submit a fix as it is quite straight forward. BTW it looks like SWS is preparing for a release soon. It would be good to get this fix in before the release, but I doubt that is going to happen given that they haven't merged anything since may.

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

Control+x/c/v already work. I added Control+Z to the list above.

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

Maybe tag cfillion and nofishonfriday when you submit the PR. Both good dudes who know what OSARA/accessibility is about.

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

@cfillion is already looking into it. He has it working on macOS as well apart from command+Z. reaper-oss/sws#1721

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

@cfillion fixed this in reaper-oss/sws#1722 . You can download a build from there to test.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Just tested here on Windows 10. Looks good with JAWS default config. Works pretty well with Jim’s scripts, but not exactly like default behavior. I’ll contact Jim to see if he can fix that.

Good job. Thanks for following up and contacting the SWS team. I like using this notes feature. Great to toggle the notes window on/off with a hotkey for quick reference inside a project.

--Pete

Lo-lo78 commented 1 year ago

Very interesting this thread. I was thinking of a problem. The OSARA keymap is very large and the free shortcuts are less and less. Is it possible that when we select a track or an item or a marker the shortcut adjusts to the focus? A bit like the delete key. Otherwise we will occupy 12 shortcuts to have all the notes at your fingertips. Maybe we need a new issue for this. ;))

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

Nice idea. Best requested from Cockos IMO, it would be useful core functionality. I'll ask them.

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

I don't think Cockos can help here; every action apart from "Item: Show notes for items..." is provided by SWS.

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

This is fixed in the latest dev build of SWS

Do we still need a workaround in Osara, or can this be closed?

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

I cannot test this on Mac, but on Windows it seems to be working fine using the default JAWS configuration. I’ve asked Jim to look at patching up the JAWS scripts so that navigation in the Notes dialog also works with his scripts running.

So I think this can be closed unless we hear from Mac users about an issue. I’ll keep you posted if Jim does address this with the JAWS scripts.

Thanks. I find the Notes to be very handy.

--Pete

From: RDMurray @.> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 9:11 AM To: jcsteh/osara @.> Cc: ptorpey @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Unable to use navigation hotkeys in Notes window (Issue #825)

This is fixed in the latest dev build of SWS https://www.sws-extension.org/download/pre-release/

Do we still need a workaround in Osara, or can this be closed?

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ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

Jen checked it over on Mac a while back, all seemed ok.

RDMurray commented 1 year ago

The thing is it still isn't in a stable release of SWS and I have no idea when that will happen. The latest release was 2 years ago now.

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

My thinking is that it's not a particularly widely used set of features, it won't break my back or result in a ton of extra traffic if we just point anyone who notices things aren't quite right to an SWS dev build. Of course if you want to fix it in OSARA too, knock yourself out.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Well I’ll trust that this version is pretty stable and save the link for others who might want to use the Notes feature.

I wonder why they don’t just merge these once in a while. I noticed the version on the Reaper dev page is really old.

Oh well. The pros and cons of open source!

--Pete

From: RDMurray @.> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 4:49 PM To: jcsteh/osara @.> Cc: ptorpey @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Unable to use navigation hotkeys in Notes window (Issue #825)

The thing is it still isn't in a stable release of SWS and I have no idea when that will happen. The latest release was 2 years ago now.

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ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Do you think most people even know about the feature? I’m guessing not.

--Pete

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

I know of a few folks using Chessel's scripts to report notes, only a few though.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Chessel’s scripts? What are those and where can I take a look at them.

Thanks.

--Pete

ScottChesworth commented 1 year ago

He wrote scripts to speak track and item notes. They're in the Dropbox, go to Scripts, ReaScripts, Chessel.

ptorpey commented 1 year ago

Fixed in Jim’s latest scripts to be released soon. The SWS beta must also be installed. Would be good if they had a released version so that it showed up as the latest version on the Cockos development web site to avoid future confusion.

--Pete

From: ScottChesworth @.> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2023 4:59 PM To: jcsteh/osara @.> Cc: ptorpey @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [jcsteh/osara] Unable to use navigation hotkeys in Notes window (Issue #825)

I know of a few folks using Chessel's scripts to report notes, only a few though.

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