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jflamy / owlcms4

Olympic Weightlifting Competition Management System
https://owlcms.github.io/owlcms4/#/index
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Add "visiting athlete"/"member of foreign federation" button to weigh-in for athletes not eligible for medals #670

Closed ctvulft closed 1 year ago

ctvulft commented 1 year ago

Concerned that the new weigh-in feature designating athletes as ineligible for medals will inadvertently make athletes who are ineligible for medals but not competing as members of foreign federations unable to place, score team points, win other awards (best lifter, etc.).

This is an issue under the current USA Weightlifting national events policies (https://www.teamusa.org/-/media/USA_Weightlifting/Documents/Policies/USAWeightliftingEventsPolicies_082922.pdf?la=en&hash=5EBDF707E1318DA9A7DEFCAF6F3ED8365CCCF8B7), where some members of USA Weightlifting are ineligible for medals on the basis of their immigration status (e.g. non-Citizens) but are not competing as members of another federation. By having the "ineligible for medals" button drop them from placing, it also treats them the same as visiting athletes from another federation, penalizing their team by making them show up as scoring 0 team points in the team competition, removing them from competition for other (non-medal) awards.

The current policies describe the placement as staying the same but the medal transferring to the next highest placed athlete.

Hoping addition of a "visiting athlete" or "member of foreign federation" button on the weigh-in form might support making this distinction (the next US national event starts at the end of June...). This is really what the current button represents. Just "ineligible for medals" is more of a cosmetic change to the results.

jflamy commented 1 year ago

Ineligible for medals was previously translated as "not eligible for individual rankings" which I felt was a bit longish.

I am quite willing to revert to the previous wording. The French words "hors-concours" and Spanish "fuera de la competencia" are used, and I was just looking for shorter in English.

The setting is meant for athletes that don't make weight in their category and are still allowed to lift, or for athletes that (like are there for the purpose of qualifying to some other event (like Azerbaidjan in the 2023 African Championship, or some Spain athletes in the last 2023 PanAms).

In such circumstances, the athletes don't get ranked and don't get medals, even though the result they posted at that body weight can count as qualification for later events.

jflamy commented 1 year ago

(in my national federation, "invited" meant exactly that, a "foreigner" competing for himself and not having an impact on any of the rankings) You first have to be eligible for individual rankings to be ranked in the various categories you are eligible to (e.g. JR, SR) and then points are added according to your membership (you could have been nominated to the JR team but not the SR).

jflamy commented 1 year ago

I you rank first in your group, score points for your team, and just are deprived of the medal but not of the points, then the program won't handle that. The scoreboard shown behind the podium may very well show the gold medal winner being ranked number 2, since that's what was used to compute his points for his team.

ctvulft commented 1 year ago

Yeah, It's definitely a weird policy that definitely doesn't match what happens in other countries.

I'm just worried about the officials at the weigh-in at youth nationals next month clicking "ineligible for medals" for non-Citizen members of USA Weightlifting and treating them like foreign lifters. Something like this happened at US Nationals Week last year when some visiting lifters from other countries were invited to participate in a "Friendship Cup event" and non-Citizen members somehow got classified the same way, resulting in no team points and the disappearance of all non-Citizens from the best lifter tables...

The only way I can imagine to reflect the policy as-written would be to have the medal winners be highlighted on the results the same way that, say, 6-for-6 performances are highlighted, which I assume would need each lifter to be classified as medal-eligible or not during weigh-in.

On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 3:39 PM Jean-François Lamy @.***> wrote:

Ineligible for medals was previously translated as "not eligible for individual rankings" which I felt was a bit longish.

I am quite willing to revert to the previous wording. The French words "hors-concours" and Spanish "fuera de la competencia" are used, and I was just looking for shorter in English.

The setting is meant for athletes that don't make weight in their category and are still allowed to lift, or for athletes that (like are there for the purpose of qualifying to some other event (like Azerbaidjan in the 2023 African Championship, or some Spain athletes in the last 2023 PanAms).

In such circumstances, the athletes don't get ranked and don't get medals, even though the result they posted at that body weight can count as qualification for later events.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/jflamy/owlcms4/issues/670#issuecomment-1553554947, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AB6DKJZ3XHPYZZ56OQ54J2TXGZ3HXANCNFSM6AAAAAAYGZQJXI . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

jflamy commented 1 year ago

I am proposing "Lifting out of competition (no points, no medals)" as the checkbox. Please contact me via e-mail at jf@jflamy.dev so I can get a bit more background.