Motor wires de-soldering on Nameless AIO 412(T)

[stylesuxx]

I came across a very strange issue - unfortunately not personally, but I have now heard from two people that the solder joints of the motors get so hot after flashing JESC that the motor wires de-solder. Re-flashing the original version of BLHELI_S does not seem to solve the issue.

One of those cases (and attempt of debugging) is documented in the comments here => https://brushlesswhoop.com/blheli_s-rpm-filter/ NLRC 412T, 1206 motors on 3S, BF4.1 RC1.

Another case I came across on Facebook just now - NLRC 412T, 1304 motors on 4S.

Interestingly enough I have no problems on my NLRC AIO 412 with 1103 motors on 2S, BF4,1 RC1.

I would like to help debugging, but I am not sure which information I can help out with.

[RadianceNL]

Log.txt There you go. :-) Didn't take that long so hopes it's oke.

[joelucid]

I'm sorry, @RadianceNL, I have to ask you to run it once again. Every other page is missing including just the one with the timing. https://jflight.net/downloads/JESC-Configurator_win64_1.2.4b.zip is the fixed version.

[RadianceNL]

Log_2.txt No problem at all!

Something that comes to my mind, I have to plug the battery to get the correct readings correct? I plug a 3s 450mah, wait for the start up tones to complete and then read the settings.

[joelucid]

Thanks @RadianceNL. And now --- drum-roll --- the results. The board comes with a firmware that uses a dead-time of 120. That dead-time isn't even available among the standard blheli_s hex files. That's probably why they have a different tag in there.

[RadianceNL]

I'm glad I could help a bit so no problem. I scrolled through the log a bit but that's all Abra Kadabra to me.

But conclusion to this? Run 90 like Nameless RC suggested in the first place? Or are you going to make a 120 version like they did and should I wait for that?

[joelucid]

Just run 90 that should be fine for now. I’ve contacted them again - hopefully we can come to a joint solution.

[RadianceNL]

Just did and did some test hoovers inside the house and all works fine on a 3s 450mah lipo. Probably won't be able to fly it till Tuesday because the weather will stay crap until then.

Thanks for your time and effort looking into this!

[stylesuxx]

OK, I don't know what to say - would be interested in a statement by NamelessRC.

[joelucid]

Ok - did get some sign of life from namelessrc:

That's it. I'm speechlessrc.

[stylesuxx]

Hmm, maybe there is a language barrier? I was thinking about contacting Bob Roogie (KebabFPV) since he was involved in board layout, maybe he can get some more information - pretty sure he is also interested in shedding some light on this situation.

[joelucid]

@stylesuxx The dead time in the tag is a two digit number, so more than 99 can't be used. I guess then they just went back to 15 in the tag for that reason. I've been trying to find out why they went beyond 90. The design gets slower the higher the battery voltage is since the voltage at the pfet gate needs to be pulled down from a higher level. Maybe they needed it for 4s.

Here's some advice on how to improve the board:

Really the best solution I can come up with ATM is to use P-H-90 instead of their mistagged version. Better to struggle a bit with 4s than to fry immediately once an update of blhelis or jesc is installed. I told them as much. If Bob has a better chance of getting through I'm all for involving him.

[stylesuxx]

I told Bob about this thread, lets see if he chimes in here.

Sounds like a good reason for higher dead time - still I wish they would have been open about it - at least tag it with some value that indicates that there is something off.

I guess before RPM filtering was a thing chances were slim for anyone to update BLHELI_S on one of those AIO boards...

If the resistor is the weak link - is it an option that on the fried boards it would be enough to swap that resistor to get them working again, or is the chance too high, that something else blew too?

[joelucid]

If the resistor is the weak link - is it an option that on the fried boards it would be enough to swap that resistor to get them working again, or is the chance too high, that something else blew too?

Nah - it's weak in the sense that its heat dissipation limits how low the resistance can be. And the lower the resistance the faster the switching. So larger component allows better heat dissipation allows lower resistance allows shorter dead-time.

But if the board needs 90-120 and you use 15 it will fry the escs rather quickly. Of course in some cases like the original poster you might just need to flash P-H-90 and be good again. That's if the FETs have not been fried yet.

[joelucid]

Here's the big fat warning I added to the JEsc Install Instructions:

[stylesuxx]

I see, thanks for the explanation. And the big fat warning is a great idea. Thanks for all that time you put into this issue.

[stylesuxx]

I had a chat with Bob on Facebook:

As it seems, he has a bit more information and apparently nameless is working on a new board...

[semtleggun]

hi i used nameless aio 412T but only flashed ph-15 with jesc configurator i tried over time but not flashed ph-90 only p-h-15

Is there something I'm trying to do?

i recover original bhleli_s 16.7 how do i?

[stylesuxx]

@semtleggun there is a checkbox you have to check before the configurator allows you to flash a different version from the one currently flashed.

[joelucid]

I've released jesc-configurator 1.2.6 which detects the dead-time of a blhelis fw from the code instead of the layout tag. So this problem should now be fixed for jesc users. Would appreciate if someone could verify the fix.

[goatzillax]

Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm trying to detect the dead-time values for my ESC (without actually clicking anything that says "flash").

Which field/read in the debug log indicates the dead time of the currently flashed firmware? Is this consistent across all ESCs/BLHeli versions?