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jonstokes / shootercontrol

We tried controlling the "what" and it doesn't work. Let's focus on the "who", instead.
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nalanbar changes to js-initial-proposal #6

Open nalanbar opened 8 years ago

nalanbar commented 8 years ago

This adds CCW, and by necessity, a second type of network: specialized. This catchall covers networks that exist to provide endorsements to your standard shooter license.

jonstokes commented 8 years ago

This should be based not on master, but on js-initial-proposal. That way I'm only merging your topic branch into my js-initial-proposal branch.

Also, I like this idea of specialized networks, but let's take a step back first, because it adds complexity.

From what I understand on reading this, you want the ability to add another kind of optional network membership that grants extra privileges.

I could see where we may end up with this, in the long run, but in the short term I'd rather just try to keep it simple, and if there are capabilities that shooters should have then they should all go in the same bucket (i.e the regular shooter network).

jonstokes commented 8 years ago

On the topic of concealed carry, here is one thing that I've thought of that I should probably add to my own document.

A particular shooter network may not want to permit members to carry concealed. The reason is that this increases everyone's risk of liability. If members are carrying concealed and they're involved in a defensive gun use (DGU), and that DGU is somehow ruled illegal or not legit, then everyone ends up losing their licenses. It also increases the training requirement, because for effective CCW you need to think about things like recognizing a threat, de-escalation, and other skills.

So I think we should let the networks say to people, "you cannot join if you have a CCW, and if you get a CCW then you lose your membership." This way, non-CCW-friendly networks are available for people who are concerned about cowboy syndrome, and CCW-friendly networks can be created with more stringent training requirements.

To implement this, we'd just need to make a rule that shooter networks can access CCW permit records, and that LEOs are required to notify all shooter networks in when a new CCW is issued.

nalanbar commented 8 years ago

Like I said, still learning git. Sorry! Defensive gun use has special grey areas, and my concern is that without some kind of provision for removing at least some responsibility for the licensing shooter network we could end up with someone who is VERY unlucky losing their ability to defend themselves if needed. Someone in a high crime area, perhaps. I envision specialized networks being larger, with governing bodies, and very, very strict rules. The reason I want to limit their liability to cases where negligence is at fault is because I see them endorsing the licenses from many standard shooter networks. Seems silly to have 100,000 people lose their CCW license because someone was a dummy. The specialization allows them to provide for more complete training and services. We also haven't touched on things like collectors and automatic weapons. We would need this to be inclusive if it is to be the basis of larger reforms. On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:44 PM Jon Stokes notifications@github.com wrote:

This should be based not on master, but on js-initial-proposal. That way I'm only merging your topic branch into my js-initial-proposal branch.

Also, I like this idea of specialized networks, but let's take a step back first, because it adds complexity.

From what I understand on reading this, you want the ability to add another kind of optional network membership that grants extra privileges.

I could see where we may end up with this, in the long run, but in the short term I'd rather just try to keep it simple, and if there are capabilities that shooters should have then they should all go in the same bucket (i.e the regular shooter network).

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jonstokes commented 8 years ago

Why don't we do this: before we get into a specific proposal for how to address the gaps, let's enumerate them in an issue thread. So, we'd cover special collections, full auto, CCW, and other issues.

Then once we've delineated all the gaps and problems, we can work backwards to the solution (which may well be specialized networks... we should just be clear on the problems we're solving, first).