Suggestion to rename the project

[ryanflorence]

I'm okay with a solid pun in conversation but its really hard to suggest using testacular in many, many settings.

Or at least stick to the (spec|test)acular combined word in marketing and quit talking about "balls".

[tomdale]

Many people are interested in using Testacular with their Ember.js apps, but I don't feel comfortable recommending something with a name that could be offensive to some developers.

[eviltrout]

While it may seem like a harmless joke, titles like this can be surprisingly alienating. I am in favor of renaming the project.

[jergason]

I agree, the name is crass and off-putting.

[scottsword]

How about Ballstastic?

[dcaliri]

:-1: to renaming the project. One makes recommendations upon generated value and not because it has a fancy or "professional name (?)"

[jsoverson]

@dcaliri, people may not choose a framework because of a name, but they definitely will not bother looking into one because of it.

Justifying a potentially offensive name because the technology underneath it is valuable is exactly the reason why a name change could be considered.

I have seen this come up socially before and it would be nice if the name wasn't a sticking point.

[ryanflorence]

@dcaliri If the project had the n-word how much value would it have to generate to justify it?

This isn't a demand, just a suggestion. I am saying that I'm not going to be using this project at work because of its name. I'm also not going to be writing blog posts or recording screencasts and marketing what is a really, really great product. I'm also less likely to push it as the suggested way to test in ember.

[jacobian]

You might be interested in reading about a similarly-named project, Testosterone, which the creator renamed after thinking about the potentially-alienating effects a gendered name can cause.

[drnikki]

:+1:

[dignifiedquire]

I have to say I find it a little shocking how easily people get offended, but I think we have great value here and if it really offends people that much and stops them from using it then I have no problem with renaming it.

[reinh]

@Dignifiedquire It isn't necessarily about being offended. It's about feeling excluded or alienated because of your membership in a group. It's about being the only woman on your already male-biased software engineering team in a male-biased software engineering industry and then being told (by men) to use a testing tool that reminds you of men's balls every time you use it. "Othering" only weakens communities.

I don't have a problem per se with the word "testacular". It could be seen as a simple play on "testing" and "spectacular". Others who don't share my privilege might feel differently and certainly there are other names one could use.

However, once you make the "testicular" connection explicit in your marketing material it makes whole project seem about as mature and professional as first grade recess. It's unfriendly to a pretty large group of people and damaging to the project's reputation and mindshare.

[jamesarosen]

+1 I think @reinh put it really well.

[jacobian]

@Dignifiedquire who's offended? You're the first person to use that word here; that's a strawman argument.

I have no dog in this fight particularly, but it's a pretty well-established fact that gendered names in tech are a problem. If you're OK with being exclusionary go right ahead, but it's a hell of silly hill to die on.

[dcaliri]

I got the arguments and agree with those, but it surprises me also those "I feel offended" attitude and I disagree on making that change. I'd rather politely let them analize their attitude and offer my "product" gently. This whole "issue" makes me sad, sincerely.

[mattvanhorn]

I agree with the comments about othering, but I much preferred 1st grade recess to most of the stupid bullshit that passes for company culture these days. So +1 for more inclusive, and -1 for more mature.

[reinh]

@dcaliri Tom suggested that "some developers may feel offended". That is not the only, or even the best, reason to consider changing the name. Let's not get sidetracked here.

[dcaliri]

I still find the name great >> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Testacular

[searls]

I'm for changing the name. I used testacular for a while, but switched to testem (I think it's a better tool for the job), but in the time I used testacular I didn't get a single straight-faced reaction back. Incidentally I could never get anyone to consider using testacular either.

I thought the name was incidental (like "tubular" or "spectacular" but for tests); if it was an intentional play on words then that's just poor marketing.

Edit: and good grief, why not just call it "spectacular", since 90% of us are using jasmine or mocha anyway?

[reinh]

@dcarli Ok, let's take a look at those definitions.

1. Testacular: a word a man may use to describe something both truly spectacular and manly; the word is a combination of spectacular and testicles.

Really? You think this is a "great" name for a software project? I think all we may have to accept the possibility that the latent sexism in your choice of name was intentional on your part.

In which case, all I can really do is strongly suggest that you do some self-reflection on whether or not you are being an asshole -- and whether you want to stop being one -- and ask other people if they really want to be associated with a project or a person who acts in this way. I don't. I find your behavior to be childish, sexist, and extremely disappointing.

[davemo]

:+1: to Spectacular, easily marketable and avoids all the issues the current name has that are mentioned above.

[dignifiedquire]

@reinh I think the point here was to be funny and not to fuel any sexism. I know that there are many problems in this area especially in the current tech culture but I find it a little bit extreme to say that everything that gets described by a male attribute would be sexist. Don't get me wrong the name in the context with these definitions is not really marketable in a serious conversation I can see that but I think that a gender discussion is a little bit over the top in this context.

[jroes]

I like spectacular :thumbsup:

Wonder if we can start a trend and get crack and cocaine renamed too... :)

[reinh]

@Dignifiedquire You should really stop for a moment and try to think about this from the perspective of someone who doesn't have testicles. Seriously, try it. You might realize how absurd your comment is.

[mattvanhorn]

"Lighten up" is not really an appropriate response to the issue @reinh brings up. See also: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/

[isaacsanders]

@Dignifiedquire @reinh Or even ask someone without testicles whether they are entertained by it...

[envygeeks]

@reinh I asked somebody who didn't have testicles and testicles did not enter into their mind when they saw it.

[tbranyen]

Considering this is funded by Google, I'm surprised the name made it past their marketing team.

[reinh]

@envygeeks That's what I said at first too but @dcaliri has made it clear that it was his intent to give the project a sexist name. That's what I'm talking about now.

@tbranyen Really, it is?! I think Google should seriously reconsider that decision.

[tbranyen]

Who do you think pays the Angular team?

[searls]

Yeah, I was going to play the Google card here too, but then they'd be tipped off to the existence of github.

[kumavis]

+1 to Spectacular. Some other ideas: Specular ( Of, resembling, or produced by a mirror or speculum. ) Spectacles Spectre/Specter Speckled

[LindseyB]

:+1: @reinh

[ryanflorence]

While this thread shows some very strong support by people with actual github contributions, it is going to be very hard to have a discussion with the owners of the repository.

If whoever is in charge of the project wants to DM me or find me on freenode (rpflo), please do.

I am going to be building some new apps soon and adding default testing into ember-tools. With the current name I am going to be using testem instead since it does similar things w/o the needless name baggage (I'm not offended, but I have empathy for those who may be). There's a good chance that what I do with ember-tools may become an officially suggested route for ember.

Didn't mean to create another one of these threads. I am sorry. I should have taken a little more care in the original text to explain that its like telling a friend their zipper is down, while at once thinking its funny but also a distraction to those around them.

I suggest some of you look up the word empathy and do a little research on marketing to different cultures.

[tj]

pretty sad if people are offended but something so stupid

[vendethiel]

Totally related : brunch/brunch#376

[reinh]

@visionmedia Pretty sad if you can't empathize with people who are different from you.

[vendethiel]

pretty sad if you actually have no sense of humor :(

[russomike]

i also hate fun and jokes

[tbranyen]

@Nami-Doc Yeah, I remember seeing that a while ago. With much class, it's a wonder why I don't take his work seriously!

[vendethiel]

Perfect timing

[wilson]

I've long avoided using this library because of the name. Just another anecdote.

[kfitzpatrick]

+1 rename

[reinh]

@Nami-Doc Now that is hilarious.

[nozpheratu]

Were the creators actually going for a name pun though? When I see the word "testacular", male genitals isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Rather I think of "test" and "spectacular". If it was "testicular" I might be inclined to think the former, however. I think people might be looking a little too much into this.

If people are basing their adversity on the urban dictionary entry of the same name, well, urban dictionary has bastardized meanings of just about EVERYTHING.

[reinh]

@12eebok I would love to think that this is the case, but I recognize my privilege and so try not to speak on behalf of people who aren't me. I know some people have had a problem with the name.

I am not personally bothered by the name, per se. I have mostly been bothered by some of the ways the possible connection to sexist "humor" has been defended by some not-particularly-empathic people in this thread.

[nozpheratu]

@reinh I don't see where this issue is stemming from though. Looking through the readme I don't see so much as a hint towards any sexist, or otherwise negative connotations. It's only here that I'm seeing any implication. I'm sure there's plenty of software names ending in "-tacular". To name a few:

https://github.com/textacular/textacular https://github.com/jfelchner/rspectacular https://github.com/tenderlove/spectacular

I don't see anybody complaining about those (granted, they aren't quite as pun-worthy or popular as this one). If you insist on renaming this repo, then I invite the particularly-empathic individuals of this thread to petition to rename those as well. While you're at it, you might as well open an issue to rename https://github.com/pivotal/jasmine, as I don't personally feel that's androgynous enough to be considered a professional project name.

[kivikakk]

@12eebok "testacular" and "testicular" sound alike in particular, the latter referring to male genitalia. "textacular", "spectacular", etc. are progressively less similar, and less likely to evoke the connection.

No-one said names had to be androgynous, but you alienate many by having a name for your project with a Levenshtein distance of 1 to male genitals.

Invoking a slippery slope doesn't detract from the fact that I (and many others, as evidenced above) don't want to use this project on the basis of its name alone, which is a shitty reason to not use software. And it is a shitty reason, in a sense, but it holds still because--believe it or not--this isn't something I want to have to think about when coding. Yet it is.

[davemo]

If the project was intended to be named as a portmanteau of "Test" and "Spectacular", then why was the original webpage tagline "JavaScript Test Runner with Balls" ?

[nozpheratu]

@unnali So? There's probably hundreds of harmless words and github repo names that can be made obscene by substituting one character for another. Is this one particularly bad because it implies male genitalia or something?

Edit: @davemo Good, we finally have a little bit of context about what the OP was talking about - an outdated YouTube video. I don't care what it was meant to be, as a newcomer onto the Github scene I didn't see any mention of balls or testicles outside of this issue. Besides, who's to say the tagline wasn't a name conception afterthought.

[vendethiel]

ah, alright, it doesn't matter anyway. Not like I'd come at you and say -- "your avatar is a girl from some anime, you must be a neet and I don't want to hire you" ;). let's leave that for the author(s) etc