Closed GoogleCodeExporter closed 9 years ago
Files attached, as well as images showing behavior when FanIsNotNightCycling
(item 1), as well as behavior when FanIsNightCycling (items 2 and 3). Probably
best to schedule a quick coordination call to describe what I have/have not
looked at.
I don't think this is a capacity issue, since as as soon as the system is no
longer night-cycling, the design cooling setpoint (75F) can be met.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 1 Dec 2014 at 1:54
Attachments:
Hey Kyle,
Do you think you will have some time available this week to review this issue?
One other question that Supriya at PNNL brought up, and that is if there is an
availability schedule defined for an AirTerminal:SingleDuct:ParallelPIU:Reheat
or AirTerminal:SingleDuct:SeriesPIU:Reheat, will AM:NightCycle override and
allow the terminal and terminal fan operate?
Let me know if you have any insight you can readily share on the do's & don'ts
of AM:NightCycle. We'll also be doing some testing internally.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 2 Dec 2014 at 11:29
Initial testing indicates for AirTerminal:SingleDuct:ParallelPIU:Reheat, if an
AirTerminal:AvailabilitySchedule is defined, neither the system or zone fans
will night cycle if control type = CycleOnAny or CycleOnAnyZoneFansOnly. Next I
am testing defining the availabilty schedule at the terminal fan instead of the
AirTerminal. Should have that result shortly.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 3 Dec 2014 at 12:28
Moving the availability schedule from the AirTerminal to the terminal fan does
seem to allow the system to properly night cycle. Here are pictures of the
parallel zone fan power for a zone in a very cold climate (USA_AK_Eielson)
FanIsNotNightCycling - This is what is observed if availability schedule is
assigned to terminal
FanIsNightCycling - This is what is observed if availability schedule is
assigned to terminal fan
Kyle, I think we need a translator update. My suggested plan to is to add a
Fan:AvailSchRef property to better manage this in simulations. The current
translation rules can remain in place, but add code that allows this property
to override the current rules. For transparency, I will add rules to default
this property from the Air/ZnSys level.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 3 Dec 2014 at 12:46
Attachments:
Removing the terminal availability schedule and instead specifying availability
only at fans resolves the night cycling issue identified in item #1). However,
delivering when night cycling (issue identified in item #2) is still present.
Kyle, if you have availability, can you focus on this issue?
Meeting cooling loads when night cycling (issue identified in item #3) does not
seem to be a problem for a multizone test model I used in comment #4. I will
continue to test this with SZVAV and other system configurations to see if I
can further isolate the issue.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 3 Dec 2014 at 1:29
I've created a new issue for the Fan:AvailSchRef enhancement described in
comment #4, see issue 872.
I am seeing the same intermittent behavior of AM:NightCycle in our models as is
noted here:
https://unmethours.com/question/1743/unmet-load-hours-linked-to-cycling-run-time
/
As noted in the post, I am also observing a shut off of the system at the end
of each 1 hour time period for one timestep, before contiuing to run the system
to meet the zone temperature setpoint. @Archmage indicates this is just how
AM:NightCycle works. I've also experimented with increasing the AM Cycling Run
Time {s}, but similar to UMH post, this does not mitigate the system shut-off
each hour.
The AM:NightCycle is not that big of an issue to T24 compliance since the
current UMLH criteria is based on occupied hours. However, the combination of
this behavior with introducing OA when night cycling is an issue that should be
addressed.
We are setting Controller:OutdoorAir, Minimum Outdoor Air Schedule Name, and
this was assumed to mitigate introducing OA during night cycle. I am testing
other combinations of inputs, but if others on this issue know of the correct
specification of schedules to ensure OA dampers are closed during night cycle,
that information is welcomed.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 9 Dec 2014 at 5:51
Re "2) Once I get the system to night-cycle, I see that it is providing outside
air when it night cycles, despite the Controller:OutdoorAir, Minimum Outdoor
Air Schedule Name. I also set a Maximum Fraction of Outdoor Air Schedule Name,
but this does not help. Are these OA control issues related to the Heat
Recovery Bypass Control Type bug?"
I am surprised that the max fraction is not working. I wonder if the problem
stems from the presence of the min schedule conflicting with the max fraction.
You said you tried using a max fraction schedule, but did you leave the min
schedule in place? I don't recall what we are trying to achieve with the min
schedule, but I assume it is to turn off the ventilation at off hours. I think
I may have moved in this direction in error. I think we should be using the
max fraction exclusively for this case. That is what I laid out in my email to
Mike. See examples here where it is working.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6AYyX2ggNyBRW9SUmJWN0ZIcWc&usp=sharing&
tid=0B6AYyX2ggNyBajM5a29JYTlyNnM
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 10 Dec 2014 at 6:47
This seems to work as I would expect. Do you agree? We do have handles for
"MinOAFracSchRef" and "MaxOAFracSchRef". I suggest we use the MaxOAFracSchRef
for this use case where we want to turn off ventilation.
Controller:OutdoorAir,
CoreZnOAControl, !- Name
CoreZnOAControl OA System Relief Node, !- Relief Air Outlet Node Name
CoreZnPSZ AirSys Supply Side (Return Air) Inlet Node, !- Return Air Node Name
CoreZnOAControl OA System Mixed Air Node, !- Mixed Air Node Name
CoreZnOAControl OA System OA Node, !- Actuator Node Name
Autosize, !- Minimum Outdoor Air Flow Rate {m3/s}
Autosize, !- Maximum Outdoor Air Flow Rate {m3/s}
NoEconomizer, !- Economizer Control Type
ModulateFlow, !- Economizer Control Action Type
, !- Economizer Maximum Limit Dry-Bulb Temperature {C}
64000, !- Economizer Maximum Limit Enthalpy {J/kg}
, !- Economizer Maximum Limit Dewpoint Temperature {C}
, !- Electronic Enthalpy Limit Curve Name
, !- Economizer Minimum Limit Dry-Bulb Temperature {C}
NoLockout, !- Lockout Type
FixedMinimum, !- Minimum Limit Type
, !- Minimum Outdoor Air Schedule Name
, !- Minimum Fraction of Outdoor Air Schedule Name
CoreZnOAControl Schedule, !- Maximum Fraction of Outdoor Air Schedule Name
CoreZnOAControl Mech Vent Controller, !- Mechanical Ventilation Controller Name
, !- Time of Day Economizer Control Schedule Name
No, !- High Humidity Control
, !- Humidistat Control Zone Name
, !- High Humidity Outdoor Air Flow Ratio
Yes, !- Control High Indoor Humidity Based on Outdoor Humidity Ratio
BypassWhenOAFlowGreaterThanMinimum; !- Heat Recovery Bypass Control Type
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 10 Dec 2014 at 7:14
Attachments:
David, try using the 'Minimum OA Schedule Name' object and set it to be
unavailable during occupied hours. I remember having looked into this before
and found the same issue- max fraction OA schedule name doesn't prevent OA
intake during unoccupied hours. I'll dig through my notes and get back to you
on that.
Original comment by supriya....@pnnl.gov
on 10 Dec 2014 at 7:42
Thanks KB and SG for looking into this.
KB, I am testing your recommendation, will get back to you on what I find.
SG, we are setting a Minimum Outdoor Air Schedule Name, but once I got night
cycling to occur, I see that schedule doesn't actually limit the OA during
occupied hours (as the I/O ref suggests), at least not when combined with a
Maximum Fraction of Outdoor Air Schedule Name (set to 1.0 for all hours).
Should have some additional testing to share in a few hours.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 10 Dec 2014 at 7:55
Supriya,
CBECC has been setting min oa schedule, but it is not working and I believe it
is incorrect for OS type idf files. I believe max fraction does work as shown
in #8. I have been advocating this method for all OpenStudio models because I
believe it is the most fool proof way to turn off ventilation in off hours. I
have test cases to support this position here,
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6AYyX2ggNyBRW9SUmJWN0ZIcWc&usp=sharing&
tid=0B6AYyX2ggNyBajM5a29JYTlyNnM. And also the example model David uploaded
with the oa controller setup per #8. I admit there are many variable involved
though, so this guidance may not be 100% foolproof. I am interested in any
examples you have where max fraction schedule is not working on an OS model.
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 10 Dec 2014 at 8:41
I created a derivative of the 90.1 ruleset MedOffice test model. The
fundamental change was to remove the AirTerminal availability schedule, and
specify availability schedules at all fans, including PIUs. This particular
model has 3 floors of office, one PVAV system per floor, with electric parallel
PIUs serving each zone; systems have diff DB economizers.
I created 3 derivatives of this model:
1) MinOA+MaxFracOA: Includes a Minimum Outdoor Air Schedule Name that is 0
during unoccupied hours, 1 during occupied, and a Maximum Fraction of Outdoor
Air Schedule Name that is 1 for all hours
2) MinOA: Include only a Minimum Outdoor Air Schedule Name that is 0 during
unoccupied hours, 1 during occupied; no MaxFracOA schedule.
3) MaxFracOA: Include only a Maximum Fraction of Outdoor Air Schedule Name that
is 0 during unoccupied hours, 1 during occupied; no MinOA schedule.
None of these combinations seems to limit OA during night cycle. I tested with
hot (Palm Springs) EPW, though I also tested #2 and #3 with a cold climate
(Mount Shasta).
Kyle, one thing I did note was the current Minimum Outdoor Air Schedule Name
you are creating from our SDD inputs is an OnOff schedule, as opposed to a
Fraction schedule. I tested changing to a Fraction schedule in the MinOAFixed
version, but the results did not change. Also, not sure if this is important,
but the Heat Recovery Bypass Control Type used in the comment #1 example is
BypassWhenOAFlowGreaterThanMinimum (this is the exception for SZVAV). In the
attached examples and most SDD models, we use BypassWhenWithinEconomizerLimits.
However, I tested a version of with the older spec (MaxFracOA2), and didn't see
any change.
Kyle, perhaps look at the MaxOAFrac model first to make sure I am not missing
anything.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 11 Dec 2014 at 12:17
Attachments:
OK disregard my comments #8 and #11. I overlooked key hours when the system is
running, ventilation should be off, but it is not. You guys must have been
like wtf model is he looking at. So I simplified the model. Took out the
pesky exhaust fan. Those are always suspect when dealing with issues of OA.
Took out the night cycle manager and just used a scheduled manager. Made the
RestaurantHVACAvail always on. guess what. ventilation is always on too.
tried removing the mech ventilation controller. I have taken heat for leaving
that in when not trying to night cycle. Still not helping. So I'm very
confused. Why is my example model that I linked to on gdrive working? What
makes this model different. One thing is that it has more simple direct air
terminals. I'm going to look into that in the morning. Retiring for now.
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 11 Dec 2014 at 5:35
My proposed fix is here.
https://github.com/NREL/OpenStudio/commit/07d89e00b79fb7439046749009f37d17983827
f3
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 15 Dec 2014 at 7:19
I reviewed the most recent OS updates. The updates fix the issues identified
here
- Removed setting TrmlUnit:AvailSchRef in SDD models. This was inhibiting
AirSystems from night cycling.
- The OS translator now sets the Fan availability schedule for all system fans,
including fan powered-boxes (supply/return/relief already were being set).
Translation of SDD property Fan:AvailSchRef has been added, but this is
currently not used since the OS defaulting is working.
- The OS IDF forward translator now sets the
ControllerMechanicalVentilation::AvailabilitySchedule to be the same as
ControllerOutdoorAir::minimumOutdoorAirSchedule, if specified. This inhibits
CMV from overriding the min OA schedule if the CMV schedule value is 0. If the
CMV schedule value is > 0, CMV overrides the min OA schedule.
Attached is a plot illustrating night cycling with the OA set to minimum. The
controller still modulates OA to not exceed the system maximum reset
temperature, currently 60F.
Closing issue
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 27 Dec 2014 at 8:55
Attachments:
Original issue reported on code.google.com by
da...@360-analytics.com
on 1 Dec 2014 at 1:39