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Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 6:47
HeatPumpWaterToAirEquationFit.idf uses the heat pump coils in the context of
AirLoopHVAC system. This is the file that uses the curves we currently have.
ZoneWSHP_wDOAS.idf uses the heat pump in zone hvac, so maybe the example files
are trying to capture the distinction with different curves.
In CBECC we used the same curves regardless of context. Here we are moving to
zone hvac example curves which will now be used in all WSHP including
AirLoopHVAC. I'm fine with all of this. Just saying...
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:09
RE: 4) The translator is looking for HtPumpCOP. Should I keep that and also
support HtPumpEIR doing necessary conversion? Or something else?
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:35
RE: 1)
https://github.com/NREL/OpenStudio/commit/a154a685227113458195aa2b0b27f5a4ebd2a2
9f
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:37
RE: 3) oh after reviewing the code, I remember this little gem. Refer to these
lines in the translator
https://github.com/NREL/OpenStudio/blob/CBECC/openstudiocore/src/sdd/MapHVAC.cpp
#L5012. It is only using TotHd if the model is autosized. Otherwise the head
is defined by the flow min, cap, and power specification to avoid being over
constrained. The simulation will fail if you have inconsistently over
constrained the inputs.
How do you want to proceed?
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:50
[deleted comment]
Re #3), we should be using HtPumpEIR for both water- and air-source heat pump
coils. EnergyPlus COP = 1/HtPumpEIR.
Let me know if the translator is not looking for HtPumpEIR for air-source
coils. If so, this was an oversight on my part from a while ago.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:54
By #3, I meant comment #3, not item 3) of issue. I will make clearer in
subsequent posts.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:55
RE: 6) Ok we are using the unitary system which could support cycling /
continuous operation, but that is a little effort that has not been made yet.
Why don't we push that out after the release?
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:57
RE: #5) Rated water flow rate comes from FluidFlowRtDsgnSim and it appears the
example model has this property for the cooling coil, but not the heating coil.
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 10:58
The air source pumps are defining EIR as you specified. I will add the same to
water source.
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 11:02
RE EIR
https://github.com/NREL/OpenStudio/commit/89fe46608daf6b35dff0e764f11fc3bfac30d5
89
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 11:08
Alright thats it from me for now. Unless I hear something about
FluidFlowRtDsgnSim or the TotHd issue.
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 11:10
Re: Comment #5, thanks for pointing this out. I recall the potential
inconsistency issues, but I don't recall the workaround. I think this is OK.
The static assumption of combined pump/motor efficiency of 0.80 is high, hence
why the calculated pump head is high as well. In any case, I recommend we leave
this as is for now.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 11:17
Re: comment #2/9, The system I see in the idf of this model is
ZoneHVAC:WaterToAirHeatPump. I seem to recall we could not readily support
water-source coils in AirLoopHVAC, and that implementation using the Unitary
object was shelved.
In the context of using ZoneHVAC, according the I/O ref, continuous vs cycling
is managed by Field: Supply Air Fan Operating Mode Schedule Name. I didn't see
this in the idf file; does OS have an element to manage this?
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 11:37
Re: comment #10, issue 603 documents the initial implementation of these
systems, and it seems to indicate it was found the flow rate was needed for the
cooling coil but not necessarily the heating coil. Sounds like if we specify
CoilHtg:FluidFlowRtDsgnSim, it will be translated, so we can test on our own.
Thanks for looking into this.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 17 Feb 2015 at 11:40
Since we have some time, I'd like to ask to address in the translator one more
outstanding issue: When ZnSys:FanCtrl = 'Continuous', the ZoneHVAC system is
still cycling to meet loads.
I think this can be addressed by specifying Field: Supply Air Fan Operating
Mode Schedule Name in the idf file.
The translation would be:
If ZnSys:FanCtrl = 'Continuous', the assigned schedule should be the same as
the system Availability Schedule Name
If ZnSys:FanCtrl = 'Cycling', the field should be left blank, or assigned a new
schedule with values of 0.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 4 Mar 2015 at 8:05
Re: #17 If Continuous how about we just use always on schedule? The
availability schedule will still turn the entire system on and off.
Is this something (cycling fan) we need to think about for AirLoopHVAC systems?
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 6 Mar 2015 at 7:17
Here is cycling fan for WSHP. I don't know why i thought this was a big deal.
I guess if we need it for AirLoopHVAC based systems it might be more thinking.
https://github.com/NREL/OpenStudio/commit/0bf6fff25d12ef48b25c7fb5d5d1e80a6adf23
f7
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 6 Mar 2015 at 9:28
I don't think we need it for air loop systems. For zone systems, they can
cycle while ventilation is provided by an air system DOAS.
Original comment by rhedr...@archenergy.com
on 6 Mar 2015 at 9:33
Re: comment #18, AlwaysOn works provided the Fan:AvailabiltySchedule overrides
this schedule.
Re: comment #19, cycling fans for AirLoopHVAC based systems would be great, but
I seem to straight-forward. Thinking about this more, wouldn't this just be
Fan:AvailabilitySchedule set to AlwaysOff, and use an
AvailabilityManager:NightCycle? We don't allow AirSystems to operate
intermittantly if they are the ventilation system, but otherwise, yes, they
could be cycling.
Original comment by da...@360-analytics.com
on 6 Mar 2015 at 9:38
Nice idea. Night cycle with no thermostat offset could be used to cycle. I've
never heard of anyone using that approach, but it is a pretty good idea i
think. The conventional approach is to put the fan and coils in a unitary
system, but we aren't using them except for the water to air heat pump coils
and then we only put the coil inside the unitary. It seems you understand this
and understand why I say cycling would take more work for air based systems.
... Unless you use the night cycle idea. For now it seems like my #19 commit
will provide what you need.
Original comment by kbe...@gmail.com
on 6 Mar 2015 at 9:54
Original issue reported on code.google.com by
da...@360-analytics.com
on 15 Feb 2015 at 10:51Attachments: