Expand corpus of attested samples.

[kriskowal]

There are a number of things we can do with pictures of attested samples.

For one, we can translate these to test cases for the appropriate mode. We can also create mode options to match these samples as closely as possible. Every scrap of Tolkien’s work has the potential to be a different incarnation of his ideas worthy of imitation.

Each of these also weighs different default behaviors differently, and we can take those into account specifically and generally. The mode for general use should be quite internally consistent, tuned to respect the most representative behaviors.

So it would be neat to collect scans of Tolkien’s example tengwar and capture them in the public directory, preferably with a name that matches their TE/VT-style reference name.

[dreamingfifi]

If you want a full, thorough list of every single tiny bit of Tengwar attested, here is the list: http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/mdtci.html

It just doesn't have the actual texts reproduced. The problem is, I am not certain of the legality of doing such a thing.

The Tolkien Estate already has some large, beautiful documents available here: https://www.tolkienestate.com/en/painting/calligraphy/calligraphies.html

[kriskowal]

It should be okay to reproduce excerpts of the original texts as test cases and provide academic references, as denoted by the Forordim reference list.

[dreamingfifi]

Okay! Then I think I can do this. I did something similar by copying all of the tengwar texts I could find into my notebook, so this would basically be a digital version of it, right?

[kriskowal]

@dreamingfifi Yes, and consequently quite valuable to the community. Arno and I previously discussed creating a shared bank of tests. This would form the basis of that.

[kriskowal]

Feel free to change the notation as well, or request changes. It is not yet particularly ergonomic but is mutable.

[dreamingfifi]

For general use English - there are actually remarkably few texts. Tolkien preferred the "Northern Variety" for writing English, which is a full mode. There is so little of General Use English that we use some of the ideas from the full mode to fill in gaps in our knowledge. But, I can gather them up as images, then write them out with a Dan Smith font (should I use Parmaite or Annatar?)

[kriskowal]

It would be ideal to write the attested examples in a notation like we have in the existing tests.

It would be possible to create test cases using the Dan Smith notation for one font or another, but they would not be readable as code.

If you do use Dan Smith bindings, we might be able to create a tool that reverses them into tengwar and tehtar name notation.

I’m sure you’re aware that Parmaitë doesn’t support doubled curls. I would favor Annatar for this reason, but as long as you note which font the attested example requires, we can make it work. I am sure Halfdan would be most pleased if Annatar worked most reliably. My preference in general is to transcribe Elvish however, and very few elves, I’m sure, wrote with Sauron’s own cursive.

I did have to modify Annatar for the transcriber. There are a small number of symbols that were spread between Annatar and a supplementary font. Web font rendering doesn’t allow one font to draw a diacritic over another font, and the transcriber doesn’t require all of the glyphs to be easily typed on an English keyboard layout, so I took some liberties.

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 12:29 PM dreamingfifi notifications@github.com wrote:

For general use English - there are actually remarkably few texts. Tolkien preferred the "Northern Variety" for writing English, which is a full mode. There is so little of General Use English that we use some of the ideas from the full mode to fill in gaps in our knowledge. But, I can gather them up as images, then write them out with a Dan Smith font (should I use Parmaite or Annatar?)

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[dreamingfifi]

Okay, I will be using your notation then. I just spent an hour scanning images and hunting down what I could find of English General Use. I will cut these scans up and enhance the text if I can, then write it out with your notation. What's the file where you have a few broken down? Or, since I'm a novice at using your notation, would you rather I just post them here and you can work them into the page properly?

[kriskowal]

The tests are in test/general-use.js, under english. If you would prefer to post here, that’s still helpful.

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 1:21 PM dreamingfifi notifications@github.com wrote:

Okay, I will be using your notation then. I just spent an hour scanning images and hunting down what I could find of English General Use. I will cut these scans up and enhance the text if I can, then write it out with your notation. What's the file where you have a few broken down? Or, since I'm a novice at using your notation, would you rather I just post them here and you can work them into the page properly?

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[dreamingfifi]

Here's the first one: It says:

“Of westmarch by John Ronald Reuel Tolkien. Herein is set forth the history of the war of the ring and the return of the king as seen by the hobbits.”

Literally written like this:

“[of] westmar[ch] by jhon ronald reuel tolkien . HeREin iz set forth [the] history [of the] wor [of the] ri[ng] [and] [the] riturn [of the] ki[ng] az see’n by hobbitS.¶”

Reproduced with Dan Smith font:

W y8V1t6Ea w~Û s95^ 75^j#2 7`V`Mj$ 1j^z`B5$ - 97OF5% k% 81F e6H3
@ 98%17Y~Û W" y6Y W" 7b% 2{( @ 71T6U5 W" zb% ,E 8`V`V5 w~Û @ 9wí^1T_-\

Character-by-character description

ampaamba vala;silme:e;tinco;malta;ore:a;calma amba;long-carrier:y
anga;hyarmen;numen:o romen;numen:o;lambe:a;ando
romen;short-carrier:e;short-carrier:u;lambe:e
tinco;lambe:o;quesse;short-carrier:i;numen:e period
hyarmen;romen:e:i-below;numen:i esse-nuquerna:i silme;tinco:e
formen;ore:o;thule

antoando hyarmen;silme:i;tinco;romen:o;long-carrier:y ampaamba:bar-below
vala;ore:o ampaamba:bar-below romen;nwalme:i ando:bar-above:i-below
antoando romen;tinco:i;ore:u;numen ampaamba:bar-below quesse;nwalme:i
esse-nuquerna:a silme;short-carrier:e;short-carrier:e;numen
amba;long-carrier:y antoando
hyarmen;amba:o:bar-far-below;tinco:i:sa-rince-downward;period;tilde

[kriskowal]

This is good material. Thank you.

[dreamingfifi]

It says:

In the land of shadows where the shadows lay

Literally written like this:

in [the] lad oV mordor wher [the] shadowZ lyy

Note: O and U are switched, and there are a few spelling errors, since this is a rough draft. The lambe in the last word is drawn so long that it looks like it’s a closed lúva on the following tengwa, but by comparing it to the completed version, we can see the difference more easily.

Reproduced with Dan Smith font:

5% @( j2# W& t6U26U
o6R @( d2#yU£ jhÕ

Character-by-character description:

numen:i antoando:i-below lambe;ando:a ampaamba:u malta;ore:u;ando;ore:u hwesta-sindarinwa;ore:e antoando:i-below harma;ando:a;vala:u;s-florish lambe;anna:y-sindar

It says:

In t[he] land of mordor where the shadows lay

Literally written like this:

in [the] land of mordor wher [the] ShadowZ lay

Note: O and U are switched.

Reproduced with Dan Smith font:

5% @ j2{# W& t6U26U
o6R
@( A2#yU£ jhE

Character-by-character description:

numen:i antoando lambe;ando:bar-above:a ampaamba:u malta;ore:u;ando;ore:u hwesta-sindarinwa;ore:e antoando:i-below harmacalma;ando:a;vala:u:s-florish lambe;anna:a

[dreamingfifi]

It says:

Dear Hugh. This is just to wish you a very happy Christmas in two styles of elvish script. I am sending some explanations, and hope you don’t find them too complicated.

Literally written like this:

dea hugh . ðis iz just to wi[sh] you a veRRy happy [ch]RistmaS in tWo stylES [of] elvi[sh] skRipt. i am sendi[ng] somE ekSplanationZ, [and] hopE you wont find ðem oot kompikated ¶

Note: I and E are switched in this text.

Reproduced with Dan Smith font: (double O is written with “č” - I’m not sure if that is different in your font or not)

2`B`C 9v& - 48$ k$ s8&1 1`N ydR hyY `C r7'R`Û
9q'E`Û Z78$1t+C 5$ 1é`N 81jØL¢ W j%rdR
8z7qR1- `V t# 82{%b$ 8t(^ z|Rqj5#1E`V5^£=
2{ 9qYO hyY y1[Y e2{$ 4t$ 1č zq[YjzR1E2% --

Character-by-character description:

ando;short-carrier:i;short-carrier:a hyarmen;anca:u period anto;silme:e esse:e anga;silme:u;tinco tinco;short-carrier:o vala;harma:e anna;vala:o short-carrier:a ampa;romen:e:bar-below;short-carrier:y
hyarmen;parma:a:bar-below;short-carrier:y hwestaquesse;romen;silme:e;tinco;malta:s-extended:a numen:e tinco:w;short-carrier:o silme;tinco;lambe:y:i-below:s-high ampaamba lambe:i;ampa;harma:e
silme;quesse;romen;parma:e;tinco;period short-carrier:e malta:a silme;ando:i:bar-above;nwalme:e silme;malta:o:i-below quesse:s-inverse:e;parma;lambe;numen:a;tinco:a;short-carrier:e;numen:o:s-florish;comma
ando:bar-above hyarmen;parma:o:i-below anna;vala:o vala;tinco:o:bar-above formen;ando:e:bar-above anto;malta:e tinco:oo quesse;parma:o:bar-above;lambe;quesse:e;tinco:a;ando:i period;period

[dreamingfifi]

inscription described here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/elfscript/conversations/topics/2424

It says:

For Michael son of Middle earth

Literally written like this:

for mi[ch]ael son [of] middlE ear[th]

Reproduced with Dan Smith font: e6H tZTlDj 85^ W t2%:jL ]F63

Character-by-character description: formen; ore:o malta;hwestaquesse:i;yanta:a;lambe ampaamba malta;ando:i:tilde-below;lambe:i-below osse:e;ore;thule

[dreamingfifi]

It says:

with the very best wishes of J.R.R.Tolkien. I wish that you need not go back “across so wide a sea”.

Literally written like this: O and U are switched, and the vowel Y is used for the Y of “you.”

wið [the] veRy best wi[sh]is [of] J.R.R.Tolkien. i wi[sh] ðat you need not go bak “akross so widE a sea”.

Reproduced with Dan Smith font:

y4% @ r7R`Û w8$1 ydT£G W

~B ydT 41E ~Û`JN 5`V2$ 51& x`M wzE
«zE78&; 8`M y2%( `C 8`V`C «º

Character-by-character description:

vala;anto:i antoando ampa;romen:e;short-carrier:y amba;silme:e;tinco vala;harma:i;s-florish:i ampaamba

long-carrier:i vala;harma:i anto;tinco:a long-carrier:y;short-carrier:u:o numen;short-carrier:e;ando:e numen;tinco:u ungwe;short-carrier:u amba;quesse:a
high-quote quesse:a;romen;silme:u:tilde-below silme;short-carrier:u vala;ando:i:i-below short-carrier:a silme;short-carrier:e;short-carrier:a high-quote;period

And that's everything. Do you need page numbers and references for these?

[kriskowal]

By way of Reddit, found a sample of Christopher Tolkien’s variant mode used in the Silmarillion. Can also scan some of the interior title page passages from my personal copies and describe them.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tengwar/comments/e0qbmt/hi_guys_i_need_your_help_ive_found_this_beautiful/?%24deep_link=true&correlation_id=b820c714-b770-48b4-8ddb-b7c308a8247a&ref=email_digest&ref_campaign=email_digest&ref_source=email&utm_content=post_title&utm_medium=digest&utm_name=top_posts&utm_source=email&utm_term=day&%243p=e_as&%24original_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FTengwar%2Fcomments%2Fe0qbmt%2Fhi_guys_i_need_your_help_ive_found_this_beautiful%2F%3F%24deep_link%3Dtrue%26correlation_id%3Db820c714-b770-48b4-8ddb-b7c308a8247a%26ref%3Demail_digest%26ref_campaign%3Demail_digest%26ref_source%3Demail%26utm_content%3Dpost_title%26utm_medium%3Ddigest%26utm_name%3Dtop_posts%26utm_source%3Demail%26utm_term%3Dday&_branch_match_id=642756025151784466

https://www.etsy.com/listing/203926652/leather-covered-copy-of-the-silmarillion

[dreamingfifi]

Sure! The reason I didn't before are because they aren't from Tolkien himself, and I consider them a secondary resource rather than a primary resource.

[dreamingfifi]

I'd rather prioritize texts by J. R. R. Tolkien - of which there are a LOT. I've done all of the General use orthographic English, but I could do the "Northern Variety" orthographic English texts next, which is what the book after the next one I'm publishing will be about.

[kriskowal]

That’s a good plan. My intent was to leave a note to self so I could close a tab. You’ve already contributed enough material to drive another round of development. Probably more than one! I have not finished copying these into a working test harness, much less modifications necessary to pass those tests.

On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 12:04 PM Fiona Jallings notifications@github.com wrote:

I'd rather prioritize texts by J. R. R. Tolkien - of which there are a LOT. I've done all of the General use orthographic English, but I could do the "Northern Variety" orthographic English texts next, which is what the book after the next one I'm publishing will be about.

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[dreamingfifi]

Alright, would you like me to start? I can focus on the bigger, more famous texts and then go on to the more obscure ones. There are a lot more of the Northern Variety ones than there are of the others.