jberkus
commented
5 years ago /sig contributor-experience attn: @castrojo
Closed jberkus closed 4 years ago
jberkus
commented
5 years ago /sig contributor-experience attn: @castrojo
castrojo
commented
5 years ago The format of the meeting hasn't changed too much since I started working on it (~2.5 years), however, the community meeting predates many things that we have today that did not exist back then:
In the past it felt like you really had to attend the meeting to understand what exactly was happening, these days it feels like you can watch the enhancements repo and get close enough without having to have someone explain an upcoming thing to you.
I'd like to bring in the -dev list and get feedback from core contributors on why they attend or not attend.
I'm not personally attached to any element of the community meeting, it's our format to decide on, so if we need to cut or add something in order to be more useful to core developers then I can easily adjust the format.
markjacksonfishing
commented
5 years ago (Marky wondering aloud) I wonder if we could drive attendance if we had some intros or walked through an issue or even showed people how to get involved, maybe even a sig sponsored drive to get more people. Just some random idea. Sorry if that doesn't help this issue.
castrojo
commented
5 years ago Adding a link on what we say the purpose of the meeting is:
The Kubernetes community meeting is intended to provide a holistic overview of community activities, critical release information, and governance updates. It also provides a forum for discussion of project-level concerns that might need a wider audience than a single special interest group (SIG).
Marky, those are all great ideas, and we should definitely look at doing those things on the YouTube Channel as a whole (like how we add contributor summit videos, etc); not sure how they might apply for this specific meeting though, we do cover lots of that in Meet Our Contributors, participants can ask a developer to do a code walkthrough or a PR review, etc.
markjacksonfishing
commented
5 years ago If I can help in any way @castrojo please do not hesitate to call on me
parispittman
commented
5 years ago i think we need to have an advertising and communication plan for all of our programs and that was my intention of setting up a marketing team for contribex but hasn't gotten off the ground. we should send out the agenda before the meeting to k-dev, get folks to write blog posts about content they see there, pull in josh's lwkd as a subproject, set up a contributor twitter, etc.
jberkus
commented
5 years ago In the past it felt like you really had to attend the meeting to understand what exactly was happening, these days it feels like you can watch the enhancements repo and get close enough without having to have someone explain an upcoming thing to you.
Yeah, I was thinking "if we dropped the contributor meeting, what would I miss?" and the answer is pretty much "the SIG updates". The CM is still a good way to keep tabs on SIG dev priorities across the project ... but maybe not the best way we could do that.
I'd like to bring in the -dev list and get feedback from core contributors on why they attend or not attend.
I believe that @parispittman has some data from last year's survey
parispittman
commented
5 years ago 
for the most part, our contributors are split with what they like the most. there is no trends either on certain personas except the two bubbles at the top right
parispittman
commented
5 years ago devstats did the poorest and thus, removed it since we removed it from the meeting
nikhita
commented
5 years ago /area community-management
jberkus
commented
5 years ago Now, the question we don't know the answer to is: why do folks feel that they no longer want to attend the community meeting?
chris-short
commented
5 years ago YouTube is there too. Watching the meeting is easy, actively participating is harder. There are a number of things we could try but, I think reiterating that it's a community meeting and having a community of people asking questions during the meeting is important. At the moment, it's a sort of demo and status meeting. If you're not interested in the demo and are good on updates, what's the incentive to attend? I feel we should work on making it a more engaging meeting or maybe even conversational to a point.
I also agree with Paris on the need for a marketing push of some sort. No one goes to things they don't know about. The calendar invite has probably changed for everyone and folks haven't picked it back up yet I bet too. How do you market a meeting? That is a tough question.
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On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 5:08 PM Josh Berkus notifications@github.com wrote:
Now, the question we don't know the answer to is: why do folks feel that they no longer want to attend the community meeting?
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parispittman
commented
5 years ago marketing push will get us far - people need to know whats on the agenda ahead of time on more than one platform (twitter, email, etc.) with a regular cadence.
this is raw feedback from the survey. i thought the "I stopped showing up after the 40th version of "here's how we at XYZ company install kubernetes" is particularly interesting because I don't know when we have ever done that. This indicates that there is a problem with communicating out what this meeting does to the larger community. As you can see from the rest of the feedback, we've made a lot of progress on what folks wanted to see different, we just haven't communicated that (ie sig preso streamlining, the slide for help wanted, etc.).
feedback here:
At the beginning I thought there should be more context for new comers. Now I have mixed feelings, because that would promote being inclusive at the risk of becoming boring for regulars
Bring more consistency to the SIG updates and up the quality by requiring the SIG leadership presenting to have materials pre-shared instead of talking rapidly off the cuff with a volunteer trying to scribe on a topic for which they're not a subject matter expert.
Community meeting is the best meeting :D
Continue to iterate and listen to the community
Email agenda or at least sig-updates to a list, so that I can determine whether to attend or watch the session later without requiring me to go check the agenda.
Have more Asia time-zone friendly meeting.
have more feedback/discussion on PR, Pull request
Haven't attended enough to give good feedback
I don't attend it.
I don't usually attend, if I'm honest.
I have started looking into it a couple of weeks ago.. will share these feedback in future..
I hope we can output a summary document of each meeting.
I like them like that, I only wish I had more time to attend.
I never attend the community meeting unless I'm presenting, so please disregard my answers to the previous question. Why do I never attend? I simply have too many meetings, and need to draw the line somewhere. The community meeting is less likely to be directly relevant to me, compared with sig & working group meetings.
I stopped showing up after the 40th version of "here's how we at XYZ company install kubernetes"
I think it's been mentioned previously but if SIG updates could include places where the SIG is looking for contributions or if they could point out good first issues, that would really awesome!
I think it's great! Maybe a tips and tricks section for better contributing / involvement / using k8s
I think it's pretty great. Would like to see more around product roadmap from SIGs
I wish the demos were less "product show-and-tell" and more "general tutorials/walkthroughs"! For example, a testgrid walk through, a "how to set up your dev env" walkthrough, a minikube tutorial walkthrough, etc. Not every week but some weeks?
I've not gone (and there was no N/A option, and the question as mandatory).
It is already better. :)
It's actually pretty great.
It's nice when I get time to attend it
Make it a bit longer with better segmentation between topics
Maybe a SIG of the week
More discussion of sig arch leads on project direction and key issues
No at this moment.
No opinion. No, I think it's useful. No, I think that it does a good job of balancing information sharing and being respectful of people's time.
Nothing that comes to my mind, need to attend more.
One of the best communities I’ve seen in the OSS landscape
Please don't monopolize folks time talking about byzantine automation changes unless there is a UX change that would affect their day 2 day lives.
Some demos drag on a little too much, but at the same time, there are others I think are too short.
Maybe a stronger vetting process?
thank you for the notes and recordings: they're really useful.
The notes writing is sometimes vague if you miss the meeting. You have to watch the recordings.
May be we could do a better job at pre-writing some sections that the speaker wants to cover in the notes section so that we have more time while write live notes.
Timezone is a main blocker for me. Maybe hold the meeting in multiple times?
Too many groups, picking the right groups could be difficult sometime
Updates on releases other than the release currently under development: what is the schedule for patch releases?
We might consider changing the time; current 10am time is very hard for some timezones.
You are doing a great work!
zoom does not work on my computer. Is there an alternative?
justaugustus
commented
5 years ago To @castrojo's email:
What would encourage you to attend the community meeting?
Less meetings on my schedule altogether. Running multiple SIG/subproject meetings, in addition to company meetings, I only attend the Community meetings when absolutely necessary e.g., giving SIG/subproject updates.
I think a less frequent meeting (semi-monthly? monthly?) could be more attractive, in addition to increased [marketing for/]avenues for getting information asynchronously.
raravena80
commented
5 years ago Love the meeting and I always learn something new, but I almost never get to see the agenda ahead of time.
Now, the question we don't know the answer to is: why do folks feel that they no longer want to attend the community meeting?
IMO, the project is more mature, there's less 'demystifying', more people are using it, and people may get the impression that there's nothing super exciting anymore. For example, introducing another CRD, introducing another in-cluster security feature (so what's new really? Why is a big deal?)
Perhaps highlight how a demo(s) or an item on the agenda has something new that hasn't been done before and why it's a big deal.
prydonius
commented
5 years ago Just looking at the recent demos at community meetings, they look like things that could (and in some cases have) been demo'd at SIG meetings (e.g. SIG Apps for a lot of the user-facing projects). I wonder if it makes sense to drop demos from the community meeting agendas and direct them elsewhere? This would shorten the meeting time and keep the agenda focused on community/SIG updates.
guineveresaenger
commented
5 years ago Knowing the agenda beforehand is great; we haven't historically done that, have we?
I also struggle with the discoverability of the community meeting:
And those are the top three results when I Google "kubernetes community meeting. Proof:
full disclosure: I am one of the meeting-avoiders, plus my company often has all-hands during the community meeting slot.
castrojo
commented
5 years ago On thing for sure I am going to start doing is inviting people outside the usual suspects to host the meeting. The cloud-native/container community has tons of interesting characters and personalities. This seems like a nobrainer way to get interesting hosts that would spice up the meeting:
fejta-bot
commented
4 years ago Issues go stale after 90d of inactivity.
Mark the issue as fresh with /remove-lifecycle stale.
Stale issues rot after an additional 30d of inactivity and eventually close.
If this issue is safe to close now please do so with /close.
Send feedback to sig-testing, kubernetes/test-infra and/or fejta. /lifecycle stale
fejta-bot
commented
4 years ago Stale issues rot after 30d of inactivity.
Mark the issue as fresh with /remove-lifecycle rotten.
Rotten issues close after an additional 30d of inactivity.
If this issue is safe to close now please do so with /close.
Send feedback to sig-testing, kubernetes/test-infra and/or fejta. /lifecycle rotten
markjacksonfishing
commented
4 years ago /remove-lifecycle rotten
parispittman
commented
4 years ago i think it might be safe to close this issue for now and re-open after evaluation of current changes?
nikhita
commented
4 years ago i think it might be safe to close this issue for now and re-open after evaluation of current changes?
:+1:
/close
k8s-ci-robot
commented
4 years ago @nikhita: Closing this issue.
For a while, we've been noting that attendance on Zoom at the community meetings has declined, from 100+ dial-ins back in 2017 to an average of less than 40 now (don't have solid data on this because Zoom doesn't record it). Our assumption had been that more people were watching it on Youtube, but Jorge pulled some data for me, and that doesn't appear to be the case:
I'm pretty sure the drop in January 2018 was due to Youtube accounting changes, but the fact remains that streaming video viewing has certainly not being going up. And this is during a period where our number of contributors was growing rapidly.
So, what do we want to do about it, if anything?