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latex3 / unicode-math

XeLaTeX/LuaLaTeX package for using unicode/OpenType maths fonts
http://ctan.org/pkg/unicode-math
LaTeX Project Public License v1.3c
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script and calligraphic letters (again) #567

Open davidcarlisle opened 3 years ago

davidcarlisle commented 3 years ago

Description

It seems that Unicode is finally going to provide a sanctioned way of accessing script v calligraphic (roundhand v chancery)

https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2020/20275r-math-calligraphic.pdf

Just for uppercase it seems, or at least with the situation for lower case being vague by definition.

It may take a while for this to filter through to actual fonts so probably no action required at this time, but making this issue as a marker.

See also Murray's description of the proposal at

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/math-in-office/unicode-math-calligraphic-alphabets/

ArchangeGabriel commented 3 years ago

Not sure what is new here. Is it a standardisation of what StylisticSet do in some fonts to split 𝓈𝒸𝓇 and 𝓬𝓪𝓵 apart (e.g. https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/120070/56823)?

Currently in Unicode, there is the issue that 𝓬𝓪𝓵 (calligraphic) is seen as bold 𝓈𝒸𝓇 (script) whereas it should have indeed been different (this was also discussed in a french norm). If I get things right this will now be really expected and the other one made a font variation? Not ideal, but still better than nothing.

Also interesting from the article is the lack of sans-serif (+italic) greek letter. Never struck me out, but indeed, while they are actually the bold variant of both. Funny! ^^

davidcarlisle commented 3 years ago

@ArchangeGabriel yes some fonts have the two forms as stylistic variants but which variant is which varies between fonts and it means there is no way to mark this up independent of the font in use. Having it available via unicode variant selector code point means that the choice is part of the character data information so can still survive being cut out of one document and pasted into another, using different fonts.

I'm not sure why you say currently cal is seen as bold scr in Unicode, I'd say the current situation is that Unicode simply doesn't distinguish these at all, regarding them as a font styling issue rather than separate alphabets.

ArchangeGabriel commented 3 years ago

@ArchangeGabriel yes some fonts have the two forms as stylistic variants but which variant is which varies between fonts and it means there is no way to mark this up independent of the font in use. Having it available via unicode variant selector code point means that the choice is part of the character data information so can still survive being cut out of one document and pasted into another, using different fonts.

I see, I guess it would also means unicode-math could load both stylistic variant by default without having to call it twice specifying the StylisticSet.

I'm not sure why you say currently cal is seen as bold scr in Unicode, I'd say the current situation is that Unicode simply doesn't distinguish these at all, regarding them as a font styling issue rather than separate alphabets.

I’m not sure either where it originally comes from, but the norm describing my keyboard layout say this about the calligraphic dead key (translated from french by me): “calligraphic latin letters (improperly called ‘bold script’ in Unicode)” (while the script dead keys has “script latin letters”). Though the result on my screen (so I guess in Noto Math at least) is indeed bold variant of the script ones, and that’s also what I get when I typeset them in LaTeX. I’ll have to check with the people who wrote this why they did so.