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ldtteam / minecolonies-features

This is a repo only to discuss minecolonies features (requested and planned)
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Getting started needs to be WAY easier... small hut, then small core buildings that can be expanded. #267

Open shawndream opened 3 years ago

shawndream commented 3 years ago

I tried the latest alpha versions of MineColonies and Structurize for 6.5 and 6.4.

I checked the MineColonies/Structurize wiki and read the getting started tutorial to make sure I wasn't missing something silly.

I searched for any similar issue/suggestion here to make sure I couldn't save everyone a bunch of time and just click, "yes please, me too".

Exact versions matter a bit less as it's a general gameplay issue, but to show good faith:

Expected behavior

Getting started with interacting with the mod/builder should have a pretty smooth flow.

1 - Start small 2 - Explore that small option 3 - Expand gracefully and easily 4 - Over time discover your evolving organic experience!

Actual behavior

1 - Build a supply ship or camp (this part is fine)

1.A - Clear an IMMENSE block down to a scorched empty cube to place a GIANT non-interactive (but plunderable/destructable) supply ship/camp (adorable and rich though it may be)...

Look it seems to have gone off the rails here. Any time you need to limit things to one time per game because they are too rewarding, (and in this case pretty punishing too) they probably need fixed more than just limited. While these schematics are beautiful, they should probably be better off as later useful buildings, and this one time starting step should probably be skipped entirely and go right to step ??? place small builders hut.

They also DEFINITELY need to borders that can flex into existing terrain/buildings MUCH closer, so their is a LOT less (down to no) bulldozing of empty space to scorched earth (maybe just demand cleared in a small core red area, crunch certain essential yellow paths out of any obstructions, and don't roll out anything else that is obstructed).

1.B - Take town hall and place ANOTHER IMMENSE block into a huge scorched and bulldozed area... this one doesn't even build, so in my case, I am left with the block floating high out of reach, and further interaction requires building a tower myself that incoming citizens fall off of.

All the same issues as 1.A... only now it's the mountain that isn't there until later... smaller, more gradual, more flexible.

1.C - A handful of citizens start spawning and dying... but they don't seem to have any interaction options and you learn that a THIRD building (a builders hut) must be created before they will do anything (like actually turn your townhall real).

Steps to reproduce the issue

Be me, an ignorant noob.

Try to learn this awesome mod.

Wish desperately that instead it went

1 - Craft a builders hut/raft/tree.

2 - Place the tiny level 1 builders hut, raft, or tree.

3 - Interact with the builder table (and attracted builder) to either protect adjacent chunks for more buildings (like the townhall, supply ship, etc), upgrade it, change theme, build more buildings, or pack it back up to move it.

Logs

No crashes, stable behavior of what I could try so far.

Notes

Sorry, hope this made sense.

Viewers

Raycoms commented 3 years ago

I've moved this to the feature discussion repo since it's not a bug or a problem and rather a different way you'd want the mod to approach the early game.

A few small points.

You can also just place a supplyship if you don't want to clear any space at all.

Citizens can be interacted with by right clicking them early on, checking their stats etc.

You're also told to get a builder, and get other workers afterwards, the progression should be rather easy from there.

I agree that a lot of people get confused by the townhall placement and feel like they have to build it early on. That's something that could be improved definitely.

On purpose we went the road of style defined buildings and not player built buildings.

shawndream commented 3 years ago

Thanks! Definitely where it belongs, did not see that area.

I tried supply ship first, and found the same issue with a HUGE block to clear (underwater and shore too).

I tried interacting with citizens and found no options that did anything (probably because I had spent hours clearing and fumbling with the first two buildings and had not successfully hutted up yet).

The problem is that "Get a Builder" isn't the promoted step one, its:

... Would love to start with a builders raft or builders hut and go from there.

I love the style defined buildings, +100!

(Base game lets you player design anything you want already, no need to duplicate, as we can add/decorate flexibly.)

Raycoms commented 3 years ago

After the citizens spawn, you should get a message about placing a builder, after placing a builder one to build it, etc. Although, we agree, the townhall page especially after creating the colony can be a bit overwhelming and we want to simplify that a bit in the future too.

shawndream commented 3 years ago

It just seems that both supply and hall before builder are huge obstacles without benefit.

If crafting builder was step 1, and that had the basics to protect and place the others, the whole process would go much smoother.

Also more flexible borders on placing those big later buildings would be really good.

shawndream commented 3 years ago

I also REALLY like the idea of the builder raft (and continuing your aquatic and stilts options building paths).

Can you point to how to submit designs / inject to my own copy of the code those things (like a builder raft schematic and ship themed townhalls)?

(I figure looking at that would help me figure out if softer borders and essential cores were easy to code in).

Raycoms commented 3 years ago

The wiki should have plenty of info on custom styles. Else, the second best source is probably to join our discord (linked on our website too).

shawndream commented 3 years ago

Thanks, I'll search the wiki for "custom styles" and pretend builders hall was stage 1. :)

ravenbuilder934 commented 3 years ago

Bit late but it's the "Schematic Tutorial" page. Also, adding a style is mainly moving files into certain folders, and wouldn't help you much with the code side of things.

shawndream commented 3 years ago

Wow

1.D - Craft Builders hut

1.E - Be told you cant place builders hut because you have no colony

1.F - scale unbuilt town hall to officially start colony

1.G - Place Builder hut... now it's floating in midair too.

1.H - scale unbuilt builders hut and assign a builder.

1.I - They do nothing until you provide all the resources... which for the jungle builders hut and town hall is many hundred jungle logs.

Boy my jungle tree farm is going to be busy.