search

ledgersmb / LedgerSMB

Double-entry accounting & ERP for the web
https://ledgersmb.org
Other
429 stars 152 forks source link

System->Defaults->Default Accounts->Current Earnings error #7861

Closed howardlowndes closed 10 months ago

howardlowndes commented 10 months ago

Version

1.11.6

What browsers are you seeing the problem on?

This problem isn't browser related

What happened?

When following the chain System->Defaults->Default Accounts->Current Earnings the drop down box only presents all of the Heading entries from the CoA and no Account entry is listed. Is this a bug, or have I failed to tick a suitable box on an Account item? If the latter, what should that selection be?

What should have happened?

I am getting sensible Accounts being offered for Inventory, Income, and Cost of Goods Sokd under the same chain.

ehuelsmann commented 10 months ago

this is a duplicate of #5853 : Current Earnings isn't an account. It's a hierarchy node in the account headings: the node which is the parent of all income and all expense accounts.

howardlowndes commented 10 months ago

...and previously #4188 (not found). It appears to have not been resolved in #5853. From what you say it appears to serve no purpose, other than to add to confusion. Maybe it should not be presented to the user.

On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 at 06:33, Erik Huelsmann @.***> wrote:

this is a duplicate of #5853 https://github.com/ledgersmb/LedgerSMB/discussions/5853 : Current Earnings isn't an account. It's a hierarchy node in the account headings: the node which is the parent of all income and all expense accounts.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ledgersmb/LedgerSMB/issues/7861#issuecomment-1868357220, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMS2F7XYBDLSO55244HRCDLYK4WZBAVCNFSM6AAAAABBARM6K6VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTQNRYGM2TOMRSGA . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

-- Howard. -- When you want a computer system that works, just choose Linux; When you want a computer system that works, just, choose Microsoft.

ehuelsmann commented 10 months ago

I think the best explanation I have of what it does is https://ledgersmb.org/topic/using-account-hierarchies-reporting ; it's definitely not useless :-)

ehuelsmann commented 10 months ago

@neilt should we copy that to the book?

howardlowndes commented 10 months ago

@neilt , certainly worth consideration, though I still found the exanples not to be crystal clear as they were not direct comparisons. As it stands with the CoA that I am working up, my top level headings are Assets, Liabilities, Equity, Income, Expenses. Is the implication that there should be a heirachical level above these such as Balance Sheet encompassing the first three above, and Profit or Loss encompassing the last two headings. This would place the Profit or Loss top level heading as suitable for the Current Earnings field in System->Defaults->Default Accounts.

ehuelsmann commented 10 months ago

s the implication that there should be a heirachical level above these such as Balance Sheet encompassing the first three above, and Profit or Loss encompassing the last two headings.

Yes, there should be a profit&loss heading that encompasses income and expenses. That heading is then to have the Equity heading as its own heading. This will place the result for the year in equity on balance sheet reports.

In my own setup I also have a heading "liabilities & equity" so as to have 2 totals in the B/S report which can be easily checked for balanced ness.

howardlowndes commented 10 months ago

I have seen Equity handled both ways. There is no question that it's a Balance Sheet item; I just think that it warrants a specific subheading in the Balance Sheet, not lumped in with Liabilities.

On Tue, 26 Dec 2023 at 20:33, Erik Huelsmann @.***> wrote:

s the implication that there should be a heirachical level above these such as Balance Sheet encompassing the first three above, and Profit or Loss encompassing the last two headings.

Yes, there should be a profit&loss heading that encompasses income and expenses. That heading is then to have the Equity heading as its own heading. This will place the result for the year in equity on balance sheet reports.

In my own setup I also have a heading "liabilities & equity" so as to have 2 totals in the B/S report which can be easily checked for balanced ness.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ledgersmb/LedgerSMB/issues/7861#issuecomment-1869405859, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMS2F7ROIWSYR73ZCBLOWVDYLKKWLAVCNFSM6AAAAABBARM6K6VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTQNRZGQYDKOBVHE . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

-- Howard. -- When you want a computer system that works, just choose Linux; When you want a computer system that works, just, choose Microsoft.

neilt commented 10 months ago

@neilt should we copy that to the book?

That depends. We need to decide where the single source of authority resides.

  1. If the single source of authority is the wiki, then the book should include a link to the the wiki article.
  2. If the single source of authority is the book, then the wiki should include a link to the book.

IMO the WIKI is great for contributions and quick answers. But more permanent and maintained information should probably be in the book. To me this does seem like something that should be in the book, now that the book is getting regular updates. I'll be happy to move it to the book, if that is the direction we want to take.

neilt commented 10 months ago

@neilt , certainly worth consideration, though I still found the exanples not to be crystal clear as they were not direct comparisons. As it stands with the CoA that I am working up, my top level headings are Assets, Liabilities, Equity, Income, Expenses. Is the implication that there should be a heirachical level above these such as Balance Sheet encompassing the first three above, and Profit or Loss encompassing the last two headings. This would place the Profit or Loss top level heading as suitable for the Current Earnings field in System->Defaults->Default Accounts.

The possibilities are very flexible, but what is shown in the wiki article are examples, not necessarily with "implications", at least as I understand. If you have an alternative working CoA that we can use to show diversity, please attach that and I can see about working that into the article or book. But I'll need the actual CoA file so that I can import and test it.

ehuelsmann commented 10 months ago

IMO the WIKI is great for contributions and quick answers. But more permanent and maintained information should probably be in the book. To me this does seem like something that should be in the book

Agreed. Let's make the book the authoritive source. By the way, this is not in the willki, but rather on the LedgerSMB.org site which has even fewer maintainers. I started to write various documents on it when GitHub wasn't too huge and didn't offer things like a wiki and discussions. All those things are there now, so I think it's probably best to refer to the book from those. From the release notes too. (The article was written as part of release notes, originally...)

neilt commented 10 months ago

IMO the WIKI is great for contributions and quick answers. But more permanent and maintained information should probably be in the book. To me this does seem like something that should be in the book

Agreed. Let's make the book the authoritive source. By the way, this is not in the willki, but rather on the LedgerSMB.org site which has even fewer maintainers. I started to write various documents on it when GitHub wasn't too huge and didn't offer things like a wiki and discussions. All those things are there now, so I think it's probably best to refer to the book from those. From the release notes too. (The article was written as part of release notes, originally...)

Not sure I understand the wiki details. I apparently can edit the article on the web site, so I just assumed it was some sort of wiki functionality. I understand it is not the GitHub wiki.

When I get the info transferred to the book:

  1. do you want the website article to stay with a link added at the top something like "This info has been superseded in the book" with a link, or
  2. should it be materially deleted, say leaving the first paragraph and adding a link to the book?

Having the info with slight differences (because I'll bring it up to date for transfer to the book) in 2 places, seems confusing?

I looked at the GitHub wiki, and it seems to be developer only focus.

Maybe this sentence from the GitHub wiki needs to be updated?

The wiki is a place for developers to store their in-progress documents for public discussion. Finalized documents will move to the repository's doc/ directory or to the [ledgersmb.org](http://ledgersmb.org/) site for public consumption.
howardlowndes commented 10 months ago

If I can throw my two bob's worth in here as a user, then, if there is a book available, then I would consider that to me the authoritative and definitive source. Wikis are one person's ideas and thoughts and are not necessarily correct or peer reviewed, whereas access to the book must, of necessity, be more controlled. Maybe my 'old school' thinking is showing...

On Thu, 28 Dec 2023, 01:47 Neil Tiffin, @.***> wrote:

IMO the WIKI is great for contributions and quick answers. But more permanent and maintained information should probably be in the book. To me this does seem like something that should be in the book

Agreed. Let's make the book the authoritive source. By the way, this is not in the willki, but rather on the LedgerSMB.org site which has even fewer maintainers. I started to write various documents on it when GitHub wasn't too huge and didn't offer things like a wiki and discussions. All those things are there now, so I think it's probably best to refer to the book from those. From the release notes too. (The article was written as part of release notes, originally...)

Not sure I understand the wiki details. I apparently can edit the article on the web site, so I just assumed it was some sort of wiki functionality. I understand it is not the GitHub wiki.

When I get the info transferred to the book:

  1. do you want the website article to stay with a link added at the top something like "This info has been superseded in the book" with a link, or
  2. should it be materially deleted, say leaving the first paragraph and adding a link to the book?

Having the info with slight differences (because I'll bring it up to date for transfer to the book) in 2 places, seems confusing?

I looked at the GitHub wiki, and it seems to be developer only focus.

Maybe this sentence from the GitHub wiki needs to be updated?

The wiki is a place for developers to store their in-progress documents for public discussion. Finalized documents will move to the repository's doc/ directory or to the ledgersmb.org site for public consumption.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/ledgersmb/LedgerSMB/issues/7861#issuecomment-1870372517, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AMS2F7XUDJSH7MIA6PAWDMDYLQYHLAVCNFSM6AAAAABBARM6K6VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMYTQNZQGM3TENJRG4 . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

ehuelsmann commented 10 months ago

I have seen Equity handled both ways. There is no question that it's a Balance Sheet item; I just think that it warrants a specific subheading in the Balance Sheet, not lumped in with Liabilities.

Agreed. I was suggesting:

  Assets
  Liabilities & Equity
    Equity
    Liabilities

So that Assets and "Liabilities & Equity" both present a total amount which can easily be checked to be the same on both sides (i.e. balanced), but with separate balances for Equity and Liabilities as well.

ehuelsmann commented 10 months ago

The original problem is now documented in the book in section https://book.ledgersmb.org/dev/split-book/sec-company-config-coa.html#sec-coa-accounts-structure