A Couple thoughts on the revised fed/klink military trees

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Overall, I kinda like the revised military trees that force you to go
through and research just about everything.  It will make taking and
holding planets (for research and construction) much more important, which
is good.

Even the AI takes to it well, since it knows it wants those higher-tier
cruisers.

However, I had a couple thoughts:
1. Nobody's ever going to build a klink cap ship besides the colonizer,
because it kicks so much ass and you need no research.  The AI certainly
doesn't.  If you get to where you can build Negh'Vars, chances are you're
winning already and don't need them.  The Romulans are in a slightly better
place, because although the colonizer is great (disable station is clutch),
there's something to be said for a D'Derivex or Noraxan Warbird.

2. Obviously you're still working (and I'm sure you know this already), but
everybody's tree needs to be equally complex to avoid giving somebody an
unfair advantage.

Original issue reported on code.google.com by thomas.s...@gmail.com on 23 Jan 2010 at 3:52

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dominion fed and klink are done as of now rommie and borg are left

Original comment by jtaylor...@gmail.com on 23 Jan 2010 at 4:36

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BTW - you realize some people are going to bitch and whine about these trees
hardcore, right?  I mean, I like them, but some people are going to gripe 
something
fierce about how it's so hard and takes so long.

Then again, compared to most 4X games, Sins was always a bit fast and the
improvements were a bit small, so I don't understand why anyone should be 
complaining.

Original comment by thomas.s...@gmail.com on 23 Jan 2010 at 5:10

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The possibility of bitching has come up in discussion before.  I'm not 100%, 
but I'm
fairly positive the agreement was that we didn't particularly care. :)

Original comment by aaron...@hotmail.com on 23 Jan 2010 at 9:20

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As the Federation I was able to beat 5 AI (1 rom, 2 dom, 1 borg, 1 klingon) 
alone
with actual tech trees, without much problems despite having assigned them more 
space
than mine for expansion (to ensure lots of resources and logistical slots each 
to
reach tier 8).
I think the problem is that they don't build good capitals or they evolve too 
slowly
or either the capitals are too much stronger compared to frigates. Or maybe all
three. I think I never even built one actually in that match.

After that I tried a solo against 1 dominion and it was no match really.
2 hours to get to tier 8 and 10 minutes of warp walzing on enemy plantes.
I am maybe the most inexpert here but I feel something is not working.

Original comment by gianmari...@gmail.com on 23 Jan 2010 at 9:31

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Might be the perfect tech tree for multiplayer purposes eh, but the AI is cannon
fodder now.

Original comment by gianmari...@gmail.com on 23 Jan 2010 at 9:33

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I don't think the AI is all that bad, but maybe that's because I've never 
expected
much out of it (being able to beat the pants off it in any form).  I will admit,
however, that the AI was better before the tech tree changes.  The changes are 
great
for human multi-player, but not as great for the bot (note, the klink bot seems 
to be
better than others).

Perhaps it is worth putting both a multi-player version and a single-player 
version
out on the street to let people have as much fun as they can.

Alternatively, if you want to be comprehensive about it, you could probably 
create
"alternate" versions of each race only for the AI to play.  The AI version 
would be
the versions that was beta tested until the tech trees were revised and cap 
ships
started requiring research.  You could name the races "AI-Fed" and "AI-Klingon" 
etc.,
that way it would be clear during multi-player games whether people were 
'cheating'
by using the version that's only supposed to be for the bot.  This should be 
pretty
darn easy, since you would only need a new player.entity file for each "AI" 
version
of each race.  In fact, if anyone has the player.entity files from last week (I 
think
I might), it would take all of a few minutes to create I think.

I'm sure you'll get all kinds of kudos for it if you do that, though time may be
limiting for a January release.

Original comment by thomas.s...@gmail.com on 23 Jan 2010 at 10:00

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what are your playing as hard , easy ???
I agree with you on the ai sentient player files
the problem with that is they would also need all of there own research entity 
files
and i am not sure sins can handle it .

Original comment by jtaylor...@gmail.com on 24 Jan 2010 at 6:14

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made changes to the ai itself please play on aggressive

Original comment by jtaylor...@gmail.com on 24 Jan 2010 at 6:21

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I only play on unfair, though I leave the strategy as random.

good point on the research files.  If sins was smart, the player files would 
have the
"map" for location and pre-requisites, but instead it's intrinsic to the 
research. 
With 5 races already we're probably getting up against the hardcode limits for 
the
max number of files allowed (presumably a stupid limit to avoid taxing RAM) as 
is, so
you're right we may not be able to pull that off.

Yuck yuck.

Original comment by thomas.s...@gmail.com on 24 Jan 2010 at 7:03

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Original comment by jtaylor...@gmail.com on 27 Jan 2010 at 3:02

• Changed state: Fixed