Consider this:

[allypalanzi]

http://findingscience.com/ruby/2014/11/17/why-im-renaming-a-gem.html

I think the best argument basically boils down to a question of whether or not I, as an open source developer, want to be as welcoming as possible to a group that has long felt marginalized and uncomfortable. This is the one that I believe is worth substantial and thoughtful consideration. If enough people from that group claim that some words that I chose make it harder for them, who am I to question their feelings. I believe there is genuine sincerity in the request, and this means that I need to listen.

Please be considerate to the community and try to understand how this project might offend others.

[ghost]

triggered

[NadyaNayme]

@mbleigh +1 to a "tongue in cheek" PR is a lot of people wanting to silence the joke. Also it's interesting how anything that backfires was "a joke" or "tongue in cheek" from SJW's. Grow a goddamn spine and stand for what you believe in instead of this passive-aggressive bullshit.

[CSobol]

The idea that penises are sexist triggers me.

[oartys]

Consider this:

I think people who get offended should be offended. 

Linus Torvalds, creator of git.

[letsgetrandy]

@oartys Love it!

[CounterPillow]

@oartys To be fair, he said this after his "nvidia, fuck you" statement, so the context was that people offended by him telling nvidia to go fuck themselves should be offended because they most likely work at nvidia.

But seriously, this whole "controversy" is a storm in a teacup. If anyone believes a dick joke on the internet will cause more sexual violence, then they're greatly trivialising the causes of sexual violence. This isn't something I pulled out of my figurative ass, RAINN actually has this point of view as well.

I think the problem is that some people don't like this type of humour, and while that's certainly a shame, it doesn't mean the humour is sexist. I know wanting to be on the "right side" of a debate and fight "the good fight" is something that many people aspire to do, and in this case it looks more like people are getting upset because they enjoy being upset, while at the same time claiming that they're getting upset because others might get upset. It's a perfect opportunity to be rude to others because you deluded yourself into thinking that it's right of you to do this because you're on the right side of history.

But maybe I'm just very oblivious to how dick jokes are offensive due to having a penis, but I'm not quite sure how that works. I admit that at first I thought everyone was upset because it's web plebbery of the highest order. That's right, Javascript upsets me more than dick jokes. And I think everyone should be more upset by Javascript than dick jokes.

[sorahn]

And I think everyone should be more upset by Javascript than dick jokes.

I definitely am.

[letsgetrandy]

@CounterPillow Well said.

[sorahn]

I just found this repository has a nice "PG" rating on it. Maybe you could add "PG13" this one :)

[gaearon]

There's another angle to this.

Quoting Ryan Florence from Testacular -> Karma rename issue:

I'm okay with a solid pun in conversation but its really hard to suggest using testacular in many, many settings.

This isn't a demand, just a suggestion. I am saying that I'm not going to be using this project at work because of its name. I'm also not going to be writing blog posts or recording screencasts and marketing what is a really, really great product. I'm also less likely to push it as the suggested way to test in ember.

It's only practical (Karma has seen bigger adoption after the rename).

[ghost]

@gaearon Wow that person is weak, a five year old could probably beat him up.

[Kagami]

Subscribed to the comments!

[Kagami]

@CounterPillow

I know wanting to be on the "right side" of a debate and fight "the good fight" is something that many people aspire to do, and in this case it looks more like people are getting upset because they enjoy being upset, while at the same time claiming that they're getting upset because others might get upset. It's a perfect opportunity to be rude to others because you deluded yourself into thinking that it's right of you to do this because you're on the right side of history.

Probably the best explanation of all that shitstorm. People are trying to fight for the truth (on both sides of barricades) and no one is right here. So the safest choice is to let it as is (as long as it's not illegal and doesn't break the GitHub rules).

[phillipsharring]

Women don't enjoy a good d**k pun now and then?

[allypalanzi]

@philsown i think you are missing the point entirely

[phillipsharring]

@allypalanzi - I'll agree that I may be missing the point. However, I feel like I completely understand how male nerds make it a boys club; and I'm thoroughly against that. https://xkcd.com/385/ illustrates it beautifully. I'm hugely in favor of equality, STEM, human dignity regardless of everything. I'm partnered with the biggest feminist ever and love her dearly.

But - um - it's a joke about penises - it's a silly pun? Everyone is included in being allowed/able to joke about that as far as I'm concerned. You are included here. Unless I'm completely misinterpreting the joke - it's making a pun - not making fun of women. It's like a fart joke. I feel that something like "boobs.js" or similar would be offensive to women given the male/female ratios in tech. I think if people are going to be offended by this, it would more likely be on the basis of not liking cussing in the work place (which, although we all use this on our resumes, this is not the workplace), right? Or the type who doesn't like fart jokes.

Honestly and sincerely - how am I missing the 'offensive to women' angle here? Is your objection that it's not inclusive? Feel free to respond privately. And yes, I'm definitely going to run this by my partner too, cause she'll set me straight don't you worry :-)

[letsgetrandy]

It's only offensive to people who feel a need to be offended. People wield the words "I'm offended" as bullies. They come in numbers and proclaim their outrage until the get what they want at the cost of the rights of others.

If @allypalanzi doesn't like jokes, she is free to not visit them. I have not attacked her, and I have not attempted to silence her... however she DOES try to silence me. So which of us is the victim of oppression here?

[scottkellum]

@philsown We are not well qualified to make any claim on weather this is offensive to women or not. I don’t have that perspective but if someone with that perspective speaks out I do my best to empathize, understand, and correct behavior. How can you tell someone from a group you are not a part of that something is or is not offensive to them?

[phillipsharring]

@scottkellum Hence why I asked for clarification. I'm not trying to claim outright that it's not offensive; I'm asking why it is. I can't "get it," obviously. But I'd like to get closer.

[scottkellum]

@letsgetrandy You have exercised your free speech and @allypalanzi has exercised hers. You have shown no willingness to address her and many others issues here and that’s your right just as it is peoples right to disagree with what you say and continue to say. Free speech is a two way street and stuff you disagree with is going to come your way just as stuff I disagree with is going to come mine.

[ghost]

Relax and enjoy some DICSS, SJW's. Or maybe fuck off back to tumblr.

[letsgetrandy]

@scottkellum I think it's dangerous to call this an exercise of free speech. That is not what is happening here. This is an exercise in control, very close to thoughtcrime. It's internet bullying by people who want to decide for me what I am allowed to think, say, and do. That is not free speech. And this is not political journalism, so I don't think the "free speech" argument applies anyway... this is a joke on a software repository that has been blown out of proportion by a group of people who think they have the duty to change an entire industry on behalf of another group of people.

[gaearon]

I think it's dangerous to call this an exercise of free speech. That is not what is happening here. This is an exercise in control, very close to thoughtcrime.

Dude, now you're paranoid.

[Kagami]

@gaearon @scottkellum could you guys please answer to this https://github.com/letsgetrandy/DICSS/issues/15#issuecomment-84954645 comment? I'm really curious how you are going to solve that kind of issue. There are a lot of LGBT repos at GitHub already and I'm 100% sure christians find it offensive.

[scottkellum]

@letsgetrandy You hit at why things have become so tense. While yes, this is a joke, there are people who feel like they are the punchline who have been consistently victimized when they go to tech events or contribute to projects here. People are so adamant about being heard because, to many, this repo embodies a lot of the casual sexism that many who love web development and try to participate in events end up not participating in because of jokes like this. I know many, many people who avoid many conferences, parties, and meetups precisely because of jokes like this.

[phillipsharring]

@scottkellum How is this sexist? That's my confusion. Because it mentions d**ks? Wouldn't women be the butt of the joke if it were about vaginas? See what I'm driving at? I'm not a MRA by any stretch - I'm sincerely confused here.

[scottkellum]

@Kagami, @philsown I made some specific comments here: https://github.com/letsgetrandy/DICSS/pull/16#issuecomment-84133412

Again, I am not qualified to answer why this is offensive on behalf of women. I find dicks funny on their own but the parts that describe what you can do with them and all the places you can stick them stands out as demeaning to the objectified entity whom dicks are being imposed upon. On this line, the subject appears to be a vagina.

@Kagami On the LGBT vs Christian issue, I think the Sass community guidelines put it best: everyone is welcome, except those who are unwelcoming.. Note that I am a Quaker (Christian) and we have explicitly affirmed gay and lesbian rights for over half a century.

[ghost]

@scottkellum you missed the point. Read the comment that was linked on issue 15. If we were to remove things because someone might chose to get offended by it, then we would remove everything from everywhere.

[sorahn]

Does DICSS work with LaTeX? Yes, but it takes longer.

Ultimately, this is not just a dick joke but a dick joke clearly written by a man with no empathy towards women.

So you're saying that it's impossible for a sexual act involving a penis to take longer with latex unless it specifically involves women?

[letsgetrandy]

Indeed, @sorahn . That's the real sexist.

[sorahn]

@letsgetrandy All the people who show up offended that you might offend someone (And have by their own comments, admitted that they are not qualified to represent that specific group of people), are what is actually wrong with any industry.

[Kagami]

put it best: everyone is welcome, except those who are unwelcoming

I don't get what are you trying to say...

Note that I am a Quaker (Christian)

Ok, some christians (e.g. orthodox, fundamentalist) will find it offensive. Will you dispute it?

[sorahn]

@Kagami thats a funny line (and guidelines page) for him to quote, given the person who started #16 probably wrote that too.

[scottkellum]

@mrseth You really think that? There are so many things that most people find inoffensive. I think that ideas, inventions, and other things deserve to be challenged regularly but if someone is offended because of who they are I think it’s worth looking into editing or resolving that issue. Again, people have the right to say whatever but I would hope people would have the decency to apologize and correct their language.

@sorahn I’m saying it leaves people out and creates a more hostile attitude towards safe sex. (EDIT) Simply leaving out “but it takes longer” would dramatically help this line IMO.

@Kagami I think that belief is wrong. Note I am challenging the belief, not the people where as the belief that LGBT people are sinful challenges the people themselves. I am opposed to creating an environment hostile to people, not beliefs and LGBT rights are a challenge to beliefs, not people.

[sorahn]

creates a more hostile attitude towards safe sex.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? It's not @letsgetrandy's job to teach, or even advocate safe sex.

[letsgetrandy]

For the record, I am in favor of safe sex. Please wear a helmet and knee and elbow pads when you enter the bedroom.

[nijikokun]

:joy:

it's still going

[scottkellum]

@sorahn You’re right, it’s not his job. He doesn’t even have to take action on issues if he doesn’t want to. Casual remarks like this have helped spark the backlash and contribute to rape culture (before you twist that into me saying it promotes rape, no, go read up on rape culture).

[scottkellum]

@Nijikokun I hope you take note that the vast majority of comments from the past 3 days have been defensive of DICSS. I am trying to make these arguments with a level head. I’m still going because there are 4 others in this thread defending DICSS still going. If they agree to disagree then fine, then we’re done here.

[letsgetrandy]

@scottkellum You're some kind of white knight, then? Speaking up for the people who have already lost interest?

[scottkellum]

@letsgetrandy No, I just have some time on my hands and wanted to speak up for myself. These are issues I have as well. I don’t like it when people leave front end development or feel they don’t want to participate in events because of jokes like these. I work on some events and an environment where people feel safe means a lot to me.

[scottkellum]

lol, nope. Plenty of good front end dev jokes around: https://medium.com/cool-code-pal http://alistafart.com/

[sorahn]

If dick (or any other sexual) jokes make you feel unsafe, you should probably get off the internet in general, and go hide in a bunker.

They are in every aspect of life

Yesterday I ate breakfast at Restaurant in Seattle called "Biscuit Bitch". I ordered a "Hot Mess Bitch" to eat. The 7 year old in line behind me ordered a "Hippie Bitch".

Where is your sexism outrage?

[scottkellum]

@sorahn My issue is with some of the language and tone. I have stated ways that the language could be tweaked to be better.

That coffee shop sounds… kinda dumb. Anyway that’s not regarding this project.

@Nijikokun Please scroll up to be about offending people for being who they are instead of ideas they have.

[sorahn]

That coffee shop

Nice generalization. This is super relevant because it's easy to see how your mind works for immediately trying to put everything in some kind of bucket so you can decide what needs to be done with it.

When I'm finished here, I'm going to go get some lunch from Dicks Drive In.

[scottkellum]

@sorahn :+1: Rad. Again, I don’t really care that this is called DICSS so have fun at Dicks Drive In.

[nijikokun]

@scottkellum I could understand if someone was doing something like in #33 where its direct and looking down on someone, or a gender, or belittling.

The repository however is purely dick jokes, any offense you take, is purely your own perception injecting your own ideals and philosophical thoughts into context.

In no way does that line promote unsafe sex, it makes a joke about safe sex that we can all agree is true. Being that I've had both safe and what others might consider unsafe (no condom, only with partners that have been tested and verified, myself included) I can confirm that under those conditions, I do last longer with a condom. I can easily relate to the joke, and many people who have seen this article that have sent it to me personally have pointed this out and laughed along with me at this notion.

Does that mean that I am going to go around not promoting safe sex? No. Is this joke perpetuating unsafe sex? No.

It is merely making an observation at the intricacies of it. Whether you like it or not, that's all it is doing, you can attempt to interject some philosophical ideology or language thought to it, but at the end of the day, that could be said for anything and everything, providing no real benefit. It's neither constructive nor helpful, it is merely your sole projection.

The vagina joke, while childish, is merely a joke. How many times have you seen someone put their finger through their finger to represent this notion, or for anal? I have seen it many times, on television (both shows and movies), the internet, and more. Does it make it right? No. Does it make it wrong? No. It just is, take it how you want and move along. Do you taking offense to something making it wrong? No. Does it make it right? No.

Stop trying to label everything. Pointless arguments.

[scottkellum]

@Nijikokun I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I have seen lots of people turned off by this repo and I can’t speak for everyone. I am pointing out some things that might be objectionable. It just really bums be out to see this repo being off-putting to so many super talented people in the tech industry. People who don’t go to events or participate in OSS because they don’t care for jokes like this. This repo is representative of what drives people away. That’s all I’m here to voice. If you think this joke is worth it, fine. I don’t think it is but that’s my opinion.

[nijikokun]

@Nijikokun I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. I have seen lots of people turned off by this repo and I can’t speak for everyone. I am pointing out some things that might be objectionable. It just really bums be out to see this repo being off-putting to so many super talented people in the tech industry. People who don’t go to events or participate in OSS because they don’t care for jokes like this. This repo is representative of what drives people away. That’s all I’m here to voice. If you think this joke is worth it, fine. I don’t think it is but that’s my opinion.

I don't mind to agree to disagree because I can honestly see your side, the problem is that you aren't right, nobody in this thread is right, and nobody in this thread is wrong.

Sheltering people is not beneficial, ostracizing people is not beneficial. You're deluding both them and yourself, effectively to believe that something does not exist, when in fact it does exist. Throwing a blanket over shit doesn't make the shit go away.

Sex exists, sexual activity happens. It will offend people, those people need to realize that its healthy to have sex, and talk about sex, to joke about sex, to understand each other and be open, to realize that this is how you grow as a human and partners. Queefs are hilarious, anal is a funny word especially when represented by a banana and nutella. I would rather live in an open society, not a closed minded one where sexual jokes (non-personal and harmless) are cause for grief.

Labeling things is dangerous territory, the world is not black and white and certainly not even shades of gray! Github is a great example of this, we each bring a mix of backgrounds in: cultures, beliefs, religion, language, ethnicity (to name a few!)

It's hard enough to get people from identical backgrounds to always agree, never mind a mix of ideologies, personalities and cultures. I'm not trying to justify behaviours or brush away issues that may or may not exist.

I'm just highlighting an important context: not only are we individually different, we also represent a large and diverse mix of ideals, ideas and cultures Don't forget, this is the internet, textual, meaning basic human interaction is often lost to the context. Often messages do not convey feelings nor sensory human queues we rely on for successful human communication.

Why are those two things important? because I don't believe in labeling / judging a person, or groups of people without getting to know them first!

---

These jokes are observations at the reality we live in, whether we like it or not.

[nkpz]

If people are turned off from development because of jokes like these in conferences, keep jokes like these out of conferences.

But I've already gone over the fact that the internet is not a professional conference (at least twice) so we are now just beating the shit out of a dead horse.