About the possibility to skip the HelloPacket

[gfanton]

At Berty we implement our conversation groups based on go-orbit-db stores (go-orbit-db is a golang port of js-orbit-db) which themselves rely on libp2p pubsub.

Since Berty users will need to exchange messages asynchronously (send a message to a receiver who's offline), we want to provide some highly available nodes. Their role would be to replicate the messages of a group to which they have been added (NB: they won't be able to decipher the messages) and forward messages to members of the conversation who were offline at the time of sending.

To do this, we would need to have some kind of supernode capable of subscribing to a very large amount of pubsub topics. But we are facing a problem: due to the gossip implementation, each peers on the pubsub will exchange the topics they are subscribed to (HelloPacket) and as mentionned on https://github.com/libp2p/go-libp2p-pubsub/issues/402, it will silently fail if too many topics have been joined and the list exceeds the maximum message size. The supernodes we are planing to setup will rapidly reach this limit.

Do you think it would be possible / desirable to have a supernode mode for the pubsub that would not require to exchange the list of topics?

Do you have any suggestion on this?

[vyzo]

it is not as simple, without the hello packet the other nodes will not see them as part of their topics of interest.

A possible approach is to have these supernodes send a hello packet in response from a lighter node and only include topics of common interst.

This could work, until you connect two supernodes togethet, where it would break badly.

[gfanton]

A possible approach is to have these supernodes send a hello packet in response from a lighter node and only include topics of common interst.

Sounds good to me, but it raises some questions:

• What will make them break badly exactly? If I understand correctly, these supernodes will only respond the common topics when they receive a HelloPacket but won't send one on their own. In this scenario, I imagine that two supernodes could fail to communicate with each other (because no HelloPacket will be sent), but could still communicate with the regular peers, right?
• Since supernodes need to have a large number of connections to be able to communicate on thousands of topics, I imagine that the default limits (in terms of grafting / prunning and full-message / metadata conn) should be changed. Do you think this could cause other issues?

Maybe you will have other suggestions / remarks that will come to your mind if I describe you the complete flow: (Knowing that a supernode / a replication node is the same thing)

• 1 conversation == 1 pubsub topic
• A conversation member == a regular peer or a replication node
• Each conversation can have an arbitrarily large number of members
• Each conversation member will Join the pubsub topic to find each others when they're online, they will send / receive any orbitDB store's head with the Publish/Subscribe methods then sync their missing messages (basically, the diff between the previous and the new head) on a dedicated stream
• Since a replication node operates like any other conversation member, there may be more than one within a conversation.
• A replication node can handle a lot of parallel connections and can be subscribed to a lot of pubsub topics

[vyzo]

ok, maybe badly was too strong; basically supernodes wont talk or mesh with each other. But given the architecture you describe maybe it is not so bad, might even be desirable!

[vyzo]

On the architecture side, what you describe is very sane and i think it could work well.

There shouldnt be an issue with supernodes having many topics and yes, it would make sense to use larger meshes and different gossip factors for them. You may also want to enable PX in them.

[vyzo]

Note that I will accept a pr implementing an option (WithLazyHello might be a good name) that enacts the lazy hello policy.

Basic outline would be to not emit the eager hello and respond to every subscription with the corresponding subscription if a topic of interest.

[BigLep]

@gfanton : do you think you'll be able to make this contribution?

2022-01-07 discussion: this is in the same theme as "how do I handle a large number of topics" (discussed more in https://github.com/libp2p/go-libp2p-pubsub/issues/402 ).

[gfanton]

We definitely need this feature for scalability reasons. Unfortunately, we have other, higher priority tasks to deal with at the moment. I can take care of it, but it will not be in the immediate future.