[Input] Correct Button layout for some games

[Immersion95]

As of today, only Neo-Geo games have the possibility to use the "Modern" layout, would it be possible to enable it for all of the 4-buttons games ?

There also could be some exceptions for :

jojo jojoba

These 2 could use the PSX/DC layout.

[barbudreadmon]

Well, i'll be honest, i use modern and don't want any of the changes you are suggesting, and while modern obeyed a certain logic for revised gameplay in ongoing fighting games franchise, i can't see that logic applying for jojo/jojoba (the only reason for different mapping on those systems is because of their controller's physical layout) or any other 4-buttons game.

[Immersion95]

Well, i'll be honest, i use modern and don't want any of the changes you are suggesting, and while modern obeyed a certain logic for revised gameplay in ongoing fighting games franchise, i can't see that logic applying for jojo/jojoba (the only reason for different mapping on those systems is because of their controller's physical layout) or any other 4-buttons game.

I was suggesting that JoJo games would use the PSX layout instead of the clockwise ABCD layout.

Also the option is there for NeoGeo games, it would be great to add it for all the 4 buttons games.

I do think that people tend to use the modern layout more (KOF PSX/DC) with pads.

[barbudreadmon]

Could you develop on the jojo/jojoba issue on gamepad ? I don't see the problem, what's the mapping on DC/PSX for those games ?

For the other ones, that's a definitive no, i don't see how a 4-button game like ddsom would benefit from it, it would only serve at bothering people who are used to the current layout with modern.

[Immersion95]

I could also make a list of 4 button games where it would be useful (like Power Instinct, SVG, etc...), would you accept it for those games :) ?

Regarding JoJo, here is more information

With A being 1, B being 2, C being 3 and S being 4

[barbudreadmon]

Done for jojo/jojoba, i was thinking the current default layout was following the arcade, but it turns out it was already wrong. For any other game, i'll consider it if you make a valid statement, like the game actually having such layout on a modern platform.

[Immersion95]

Thanks a lot !

Let me do the homework for the other games, I'll try to trace all of them.

There are also 6 button layout games which are wrong by the way :

• kaiserkn (Page 11 of this pdf)
• fghthist (picture of this cabinet)

They should have the same Street Fighter mapping.

[barbudreadmon]

Those 2 games didn't have the Weak/Medium/Strong Punch/Kick button labels, which is why they weren't recognized for the sf2 layout, thanks for letting me know, it should be ok now.

[Immersion95]

Thanks :), I also updated the title.

[Immersion95]

So regarding my investigation :

1. Power Instinct games should follow this layout :

------3 1----------4 ------2

• powerins
• pwrinst2
• plegends

Why ?

• Power Instinct was only ported to the SNES/Megadrive. It uses this layout.
• Power Instinct 2 was only ported to the PSX. It uses this layout.

2. Spectral vs Generation (svg) should have this layout :

------2 1----------3 ------4

Why ? SVG was only ported to the PS2/PSP. It uses this layout.

3. Rabbit (rabbit) should follow this layout :

------2 1----------4 ------3

Why ? Rabbit was only ported to the Saturn. It uses this layout.

[barbudreadmon]

Done => https://github.com/libretro/FBNeo/commit/7c032d15c5705954e411f49bb9542075b345e633

powerins & co => arcade actually uses the same layout than snes/md svg => arcade uses a straight line of 4 buttons, so its layout doesn't really matter with retropad, let's use the one from from psp/ps2 rabbit => i couldn't find anything about this one's arcade layout, so let's go with the one from saturn

Those 3 changes were applied to both classic and modern

[Immersion95]

For Rabbit, i didn't find anything. I had to try the game directly.

Merci beaucoup :) (je crois que tu parles aussi français ?)

[barbudreadmon]

De rien

[Immersion95]

I also wanted to know if it would be possible to add games that don't have ports but would benefit greatly from this layout :

------2 1----------4 ------3

Why ? It's a straight line of 4 buttons - LP, HP, LK, HK

avengrgs bloodwar daraku drgnmst shogwarr tkdensho

[barbudreadmon]

I'll be back home monday and i'll take a look

[barbudreadmon]

The change is done (actually i found evidence that the first 3 games are played with punches on top in arcade cabinets), however with the buildbots currently dead you'll have to wait except if you build the core yourself.

[Immersion95]

It works, thanks a lot !

I also wanted to modify the modern layout for some Neo-Geo games (Samurai Spirits, etc...), do you know if it would be accepted ?

[barbudreadmon]

do you know if it would be accepted ?

as i said i'll consider anything as long as you make a valid statement, it'll be a hard one though

[Immersion95]

1. These NeoGeo games follow this pattern : A-B-C-D = LP-MP-LK-MK

doubledr --->Wrong, this uses [A] Light Attack [B] Medium Attack [C] Hard Attack [D] Extra Attack kabukikl karnovr ninjamas samsho samsho2 wakuwak7 whp

This layout suits those games well :

------2 1----------4 ------3

2. Those NeoGeo games follow this pattern : A-B-C-D = LP-MP-HP-K

samsho3 samsho4

Samurai Spirits Tenkaichi & Samurai Spirits 2019 which have the same button configuration use this layout which is the best to my knowledge :

------2 1----------3 ------4

3. Galaxy Fight follows this pattern : A-B-C-D = Light-Medium-High-Taunt

The PSX version of this game uses this layout :

------4 1----------3 ------2

I do think though that this following layout is better and is more "universal" across games (JoJo, SVG, Samurai Spirits) :

------2 1----------3 ------4

4. Those NeoGeo games follow this pattern : A-B-C-D = LP-MP-K-Special

samsho5 samsh5sp

Samurai Spirits 5 on the PS2/XBOX uses this layout :

------2 1----------4 ------3

5. Those NeoGeo games follow this pattern : A-B-C-D = LP-MP-K-Repel

lastblad lastbld2

Now those 2 games have button layouts all over the place on the different ports :

LB PSX :

------4 3----------2 ------1

LB2 DC :

------4 2----------3 ------1

LB2 PS2 :

------3 1----------4 ------2

I do think that neither are great and that it should be like this :

------2 1----------4 ------3

Please note that A=1, B=2, etc...

[barbudreadmon]

tbh i don't think i'll do most of this, and will just restrict the "modern" layout to kof games instead of all fighting games,the reasons :

• it was my original intention, i only wanted to match the kof serie layout from psx onward since it was the only serie that really kept going, i ended up enlarging it to all fighting games because someone requested it but as i already suspected at that time it was a bad idea, because those games with modern layout actually don't match anything existing
• the "classic" layout is how those games are played on real hardware with the official neogeo gamepad
• i don't think any of the layouts you are proposing is objectively better than the original, furthermore there are errors in there, doubledr's has totally different layout from a character to another, sometimes you get 3P+1K, sometimes you have P at bottom, sometimes at top, etc...

I might consider adding a real normalized modern layout for all samshos though, with samsho 2019 as model

[Immersion95]

• doubledr's

I don't think that there are errors apart from doubledr though but I would gladly be corrected as I also need those information :)

Regarding the layouts that I proposed, I disagree with you about these :

• All of the Samurai Spirits layouts that I gave are from the official ports
• Waku Waku 7, Karnov's Revenge & World Heroes Perfect in Saturn use this same layout that I gave
• Galaxy Fight can at least be changed to the PSX layout

For Last Blade games, there is not a definite answer so it's better to leave it like this. Double Dragon on PSX use the NeoGeo CD PAD layout so it can also remain as it is.

There also can be a statement regarding the NeoGeo mini which use a "Modern" Layout for all of its games :

------3 1----------4 ------2

I still think that "Modern" should match the new direction that SNK chose for the NeoGeo mini pad for all the games and that "Modern" shouldn't be an hybrid configuration (I know that you already refused :p)

I just wanted to add that I'm not correcting the layouts for myself as I already know how to do it and did it. I just wanted to make the experience easy enough for people (like my nieces & borther) that won't go through all of these configuration and make it as friendly as possible :)

I think that I will try to check the layouts for the ports of the other games (like Double Dragon, Karnov's Revenge, etc...) if you are still interested in this issue.

Thanks a lot for your help and the time you take @barbudreadmon !

[barbudreadmon]

I still think that "Modern" should match the new direction that SNK chose for the NeoGeo mini pad for all the games and that "Modern" shouldn't be an hybrid configuration (I know that you already refused :p)

Actually, i don't remember it was ever mentioned that neogeo mini pad and arcade stick pro were using that layout, i just learned about this (it seems i missed that part the first time i read your post) and it's a very sound argument, change is done, now modern affects all neogeo games.

[Immersion95]

It's solved then :)