Modern mapping

[barbudreadmon]

Hi,

Perhaps there was a misunderstanding but i heard in https://github.com/libretro/fbalpha/issues/225 that you switched to Y X L1 R1 B A L2 R2 for modern mapping.

As explained in the issue (with photos), that's a bad idea because most arcade sticks/pads are like this : (L1) Y X R1 (L1) (L2) B A R2 (L2) with L1/L2 being the first or last column (generally the last). And when i say "most" i mean 90% of the arcade sticks/pads from the last 25 years. Starting with the psx ascii, it became the standard.

Also considering i heard the purpose of modern mapping in mame2003-plus was to match the one in fbalpha, that feels like a regression to me.

Anyway, i won't do something similar, most of the configs in https://github.com/libretro/retroarch-joypad-autoconfig would become unplayable.

While pleasing contributors is good, don't mess the mapping for all other people because one of your contributors use 1 custom mapping to fit his needs, he should handle it in his own setup, perhaps by using the --append-config argument of retroarch when launching a specific core to load custom mappings or autoconfig directory.

Best regards :).

[Wilstorm]

@grant2258 - I am definitely not jaded as I don't own a fight stick nor do I play competition nor do I play many fighters. Thank you for taking the time to explain it thoroughly. I am going to hold on to what you said here and just let it settle in and ponder it. Let thee ol' subconscious sort it out and clarity will come.

If I throw to many layers into the mix it get really confusing quickly and it seems people feel really strongly one way or the other about the L/R column. My main focus is Golden Age of arcade video games mainly simple 3/4 button layouts.

It helps to understand. Which helps if someone asks for feedback on what do you think and how do you want to implement it type questions....or polls! ;)

[ghost]

Well the button order was the only thing in question not the physical mapping. We already have modern or 8 panel physical layouts

Most people dont seem to understand how ra works thats why we need a default set

there is only two alternate layouts

yours 456 123

and roberts 345 123

personal i dont care what these are as defaults because ill map them within ra myself to how i want them in mame anyway

my mapping is with ra remaps atm 456 1234

the problem with roberts map is we will loose any ability to map button 6 at all again im not here to explain how ra input system works i did suggest defaults if you guys dont like them pick new ones and poll it.

Then you can explain to the next person why you think this is a good setup for new users when they dont know how to set controls in ra up

[Wilstorm]

Right that makes sense. Just to verify below is correct?

Modern: 1 2 3 7 Y X R L B A R2 L2 4 5 6 8

8 Panel: 1 2 3 7 Y X L R B A L2 R2 4 5 6 8

[ghost]

@Wilstorm modern https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/blob/e9670bdcd624cc3b439299c4892e977144829475/src/mame2003/mame2003.c#L1377

8panel https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/blob/e9670bdcd624cc3b439299c4892e977144829475/src/mame2003/mame2003.c#L1401

[Wilstorm]

@grant2258 - That's perfect so they do align with the diagrams. Good exercise.

Yes I will probably override if I need to. I can't explain everything discussed here well but overriding I can do very easily. Just tell me the values of the buttons and where do you want to be and it's a snap. I read something somewhere that I believe someone was confusing core options with core overrides. They are 2 different files.

Also I would be curious too which takes priority over sub-type loads vs. a global, core & ROM overrides. They have to stack in hierarchy and I find that important so I spent a ton of time learning overrides.

[barbudreadmon]

People without fighsticks dont have these markings so arent fooled

@grant2258 Let's assume you are right and Y X L1 R1 B A L2 R2 is the "very best" retropad layout for an arcade stick/pad, because it allows you to play mario kart on an arcade stick (i love this example), now let's consider a few examples : How should i deal with this one ? Important thing : it's not an usb arcade stick, it's a ps1 arcade stick, which means you'll use ps1 => usb adapter, and retroarch won't be able to say if it's a ps1 arcade stick or a classic ps1 controller, should i map it like this ? Y X L1 R1 B A L2 R2 Or like this ? R1 Y X L1 R2 B A L2 Both way would turn my ps1/ps2 controllers into an ugly mess. Of course the same is appliable for every console => usb adapter, including the one the libretro guys are currently promoting.

Another example : A versatile controller where R1/R2 buttons are both on the front and right trigger/shoulder. Now i listen to you and map L1/L2 to the front, my right trigger/shoulder became L1/L2, and my left trigger/shoulder became R1/R2, another controller became an ugly mess.

Congratulations, you turned good controllers into ugly mess because you wanted to play mario kart on an arcade stick, didn't even consider it wasn't designed to be played this way, didn't consider people playing with you would prefer another controller (wanting to play mario kart with a gamepad is generally what people want), and wanted to share your enlightenment with everyone who got "fooled".

If you want to map your bartop this way, that's fine, if mame2003-plus provide support for your custom mapping, that's even better, but don't say other people are "fooled" by the markings, those markings were done by tons of people who worked for years in the gaming industry, what about you ?

Be careful with your choice of word in the future (yeah it really pissed me off), especially when you don't know everything (me neither, but at least i have a wider view about this it seems).

When i have some time i'll consider adding a third layout to fba for bartop people like you who want to play mario kart without pluging alternative controllers.

[ghost]

@barbudreadmon if you want to keep the real layout markings of alternative controller thats fine. No one is stopping you.

Its the label printing that putting people off.

Retroach does the same thing with a xbox 360 controler it messes the the label order up if you set your controls via looking at the the xbox a b x y buttons it would come out wrong so you could say the xbox360 is messed up when you look at it that way.

retroarch input design is the retropad model not how the controller is marked up.

I cant see RA agreeing to autoconfig controllers to follow something that doesnt follow its model

[Wilstorm]

Wouldn't you always be able to find controllers that will not work properly? Wouldn't you want to design layouts that work with say for example the top 5 controllers used in the world. If you use 'other' controllers then you need to do custom mappings?

I am also curious when the first fight stick was created. Does anyone have a link to such information? I am not sure why that matters but it seems arcade games came along long before the fight stick but maybe not.

[Wilstorm]

Retroach does the same thing with a xbox 360 controler it messes the the label order up if you set your controls via looking at the the xbox a b x y buttons it would come out wrong

True. I remember asking that same question a few years ago.

[ghost]

well you answer is in that retrorch picture I posed you @Wilstorm it seems it acceptable on controllers but another rule should apply to fight sticks

there is two basic panels we are supporting

6 and 8 OOO OOO

OOOO OOOO

we arent supporing every fight stick configuration under the sun and you modern mapping wouldnt map these controller properly either unless you changed there autoconfig to suit the controllers mapping. That would mean it works in mame and is useless in every other core

you simple map to this basic arcade layout and keep comparability across cores

[markwkidd]

It seems like maybe this boils a lot down to prebuilt fightsticks that both:

1. have control names permanently written on the control
2. use control names in the same control namespace as the RetroPad (ie X, Y, A, B, L1, etc).

The thing about controls that use PS/2 style adapters is that they can't use RetroArch autoconfig, which IMO is the means within RA to address this issue of different labels on physical controls versus the retropad mapping.

With an autoconfig in place you can specify the labels of the face buttons as engraved/painted/etc on your control so any time you use the Controls mapping in RA you see what is written on your hardware even if that doesn't gel with the RetroPad abstraction. In essence the RetroPad becomes transparent in all RetroArch GUIs because the labels that are printed on your control are used in menus.

In chats with radius it has come up that maybe there could be autoconfigure-style labels for manually configured input devices too. Am I right that a part of this discussion is the confusion when a users physical controller says L1 but that they might be asked to map that to a RetroPad input with a different name, like R2?

[ghost]

Well what we are doing is mapping

OOO OOO

OOOO OOOO

to the retropad RA mapping

the other way is mapping to the controllers physical markings I cant see this way flying in retroarch it means these controllers would be useless in any other core. I thought we where doing the the libretro way which means retropad

look at the xbox360 physical lables XY AB

retropad model demands YX BA

and that is whats set so no matter what your modern controller says in it thats where the buttons are order wise weather its autoconfig or a retropie diagram.

If you look in the controls menu it shows you this is happening in ra with autoconfig. Retropie is completely different it shows no labels at all

[ghost]

@barbudreadmon you said Y X L1 R1 B A L2 R2 Or like this ? R1 Y X L1 R2 B A L2

well how do you think autoconfig should configure this for fba or a retroarch retropad core wide?

If we done this we can forget about any default layout working because we just have a mess of random controllers and no default setup for panels if that way is what you want can go for that.

R1 Y X L1 R2 B A L2

setup wont work with any of the retropads you have setup well anyway id you mapped it to binding by pressing these buttons it would work as expected

Y X L1 R1 B A L2 R2

it just your labels would be wrong like a xbox360 controller is with teh current retropad.

just for some perspective our gamepad and panels are separate retropads so one doesnt effect the other

[ghost]

I think this is something that is wide open until RA actually make an official stance to be fair.

All we can do right now is make a best guess map to RA Retropad model for a standard 6/8 button layout based on

OOO OOO

OOOO OOOO

when using this system for all cores and not just fba/mame fighstick labeling we are supporting both atm anyway.

[Wilstorm]

@markwkidd - I agree labels are confusing. I remember using my first 360 controller and asking why is buttons AB being mapped as Retropad BA.

Here's how I understand the issue. The crux being there's no Retroarch standard for panels set.

If I hand you a 360 controller and ask you to tell me where's Retropad A located. You can physically tell me the exact button on the controller no questions asked. If I hand you a PS3 controller you can do the same or NES or SNES, etc. It's been predetermined.

If I tore off the control panel from my arcade machine and said where's Retropad A located. You can't! No one has set a standard on what's Retropad A, B, etc.

So one camp argues it needs to be this because it maps just like a fight stick.

Y X R L B A R2 L2

A different camp says map it like this and it will work with consoles better. The YX BA buttons are like a button pad layout on a controller and the L/R shoulders above the L/R triggers are like a controller setup also but off to the right (when using an 8 button arcade panel).

Y X L R B A L2 R2

The trick here is knowing you can map the MAME keys to either layout above properly but you need to first decide on what is the Retroarch standard layout first.

I think Grant's standard for a panel will map for consoles better when using an arcade panel. Remember this is about using an arcade panel for console games. MAME will be mapped properly regardless of which layout is used above and controllers don't count because they are a separate thing and already established.

Until a Retroarch standard is set then you can't really map MAME buttons because they will change depending on how you label and then map the panel buttons.

Is L in the 3rd column and R in the 4th column or vice versa? This will dictate and change the MAME mappings because you're physically changing Retropad L, R, etc. button locations.

That's why I ask about physical layout but the better question might be where is Retropad A, B, etc. going to be located because if that was defined or a standard set then this discussion would be a mute point. It would just be a matter of mapping MAME buttons to one or the other Retropad layouts above for a panel.

The lack of a Retropad layout standard for an arcade panel is causing the issue.

Think about it. The issue isn't the Retropad to MAME button mappings because you have the power to map it anyway you want once a Retropad standard for panels is set. MAME games (including sf2 and others) will work properly with no compromise. What is out of your control is how do one of the layouts above look to other cores like Atari, NES, SNES, PS, etc. if you are using only an arcade panel to play all those consoles in addition to MAME.

[ghost]

@Wilstorm you do have the gist of it the reason the other none fight stick mapping works better with consoles or any other core that uses the l-r button is because its mapped to the retropad standard shape.

Mark has done a lot of work to bring mame to RA standards the input shouldnt differ it would break the model. I made the 8 panel and mapped it like that so I wouldnt break the model and you could use your panel for all cores not just mame.

for a blank canvas no labels involved you would have a very hard time justifying the fighstick layout as a retroarch global mapping default for all cores. I guess thats something for fr500 or the ra team to decide though. We will support both until a standard is decided.

There wil need to be two standard though the 6 and 8 button panels

both 8 button standards are supported with mame2003+though

just pick gamepad for fight sticks or pick 8button for 8panel mapping

and remap your mame buttons accordingly to the physical setup you choose in ra remapper or stick with the

123 456

default that is set for both

[Wilstorm]

@grant2258 - Yeah that makes sense it really covers all [other] cores that use LR and you can still adjust whatever Retropad to MAME mappings you see fit in Plus without compromising anything. You guys have covered both scenarios through sub-types though, which is handy. What will be the default when you enter MAME for the first time, Gamepad or 8 Button?

[markwkidd]

Gamepad is the default

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:07 PM, Wilstorm notifications@github.com wrote:

@grant2258 https://github.com/grant2258 - Yeah that makes sense it really covers all [other] cores that use LR and you can still adjust whatever Retropad to MAME mappings you see fit in Plus without compromising anything. You guys have covered both scenarios through sub-types though, which is handy. What will be the default when you enter MAME for the first time, Gamepad or 8 Button?

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/issues/285#issuecomment-396414592, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ASphdkQUcPgr9rD5yXtF8R8ZUqw9jcpIks5t7vhIgaJpZM4Uil_R .

-- Mark W. Kidd http://facebook.com/markwkidd (606)536-0115

[ghost]

It really should be classic as default for 99% of games that aren't sf2 for normal gamepad controllers but that's neither here nor there and it is changeable. I hope this all a bit clearer for you now Wilson it's not the easiest thing to explain.

[markwkidd]

I have no objection to a default of Classic Gamepad. As a user, that change affects me not at all -- and if it makes for a better default in general that seems good!

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:29 PM, grant2258 notifications@github.com wrote:

It really should be classic as default for 99% of games that aren't sf2 for normal gamepad controllers but that's neither here nor there and it is changeable

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/issues/285#issuecomment-396418370, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ASphdrZ9gA4y5x9-u3An1wOi3SKF_E4Bks5t7v1LgaJpZM4Uil_R .

-- Mark W. Kidd http://facebook.com/markwkidd (606)536-0115

[ghost]

@markwkidd im not an avid gamepad user but modern is only really good for sf2 on a gamepad imho. Get input from wilson and robert and take it from there.

A snes pad wont map properly on this setting either because it has no R2. Classic will map fine though.

Modern /gamepad is best viewed as a sf2 only for gamepads and the fight stick mapping

[markwkidd]

Yeah my two control systems are probably 6-Button and 8-Button. I guess there's no rush to change the default to Classic Gamepad until we hear from other folks

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:42 PM, grant2258 notifications@github.com wrote:

@markwkidd https://github.com/markwkidd im not an avid gamepad user but modern is only really good for sf2 on a gamepad imho. Get input from wilson and robert and take it from there.

A snes pad wont map properly on this setting either because it has no R2

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/issues/285#issuecomment-396420438, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ASphdsE98aFhy6fLcR9CYtz0fp5-JjPbks5t7wBzgaJpZM4Uil_R .

-- Mark W. Kidd http://facebook.com/markwkidd (606)536-0115

[ghost]

mine is 8 button for arcade panel

for gamepads I use 6 button for sf2 or classic for games other than sf2

[ghost]

@Wilstorm here is another one for you barbudreadmon asked about this

this does not fit the default mapping of modern either. He never did say how we would bind this to modern either though i was just said

X Y L R B A L2 R2

would mess this controller up

again moderns binding would mess it up just as much.

The quick hack solution for this would be to bind to the markings on the particular fight stick and have no real standard it would work this way but other cores would hit and miss depending on the layout of the random fight stick standards.

Ironically this controller makes more sense as a retropad default than modern does to be honest

We could post million different layouts the bottom line is a physical retopad panel standard is needed for the retropad buttons for 8 panel regardless of the markings on it

OOOO OOOO

[barbudreadmon]

Retroach does the same thing with a xbox 360 controler it messes the the label order up if you set your controls via looking at the the xbox a b x y buttons it would come out wrong so you could say the xbox360 is messed up when you look at it that way.

libretro uses the reference B A Y X layout, not the copycat one.

this does not fit the default mapping of modern either. He never did say how we would bind this to modern either though i was just said

Why change what is not broken ??? I don't see any issue using it the way it is already detected by autoconfig : L1 Y X R1 L2 B A R2 With L being spatially to the left of R, you can even play the few games that make use of it (mario kart, wipeout, fzero, doom, ...). Again, when a game is obviously designed to be played with a kind of controller, you should stick with it, playing mario kart with an arcade stick is the same as playing king of fighters with a wiimote : sure it is possible with a few tricks, but it will sucks.

The crux being there's no Retroarch standard for panels set.

@fr500 participated a lot in the discussions about mappings in fba, agreed to the 2 current presets of fba, and is the "input guy" of the team. Also, if you don't follow the known retropad rule of "R1 is R/R1/RT, L1 is L/L1/LT, R2 is R2/RB, L2 is L2/LB", a ton of good controllers becomes unplayable (most original controllers through usb adapters, oddballs like the Hori FCs, probably others), breaking things is generally against libretro policy.

[ghost]

when you say unplayable im guessing you mean it doesnt match the original mappings so you basically saying arcade panels should not map to a retroad standard and be not useable in any core so it works in fba in its original format. That breaks the libretro model as well. Why do when even have a retropad for controllers?

None of these controllers become unusable at all if you map them to a retropad shape it. Its just your little printed labels dont make sense. The retropad messes your xbox360 labels up as well when looking at the controller it didnt stop them doint it there.

your input system for arcade controls in emulators(mame and fba) does become harder when you stick to retropad standards but it is doable as mark has shown.

any fix format on a retropad from RA for there virtual arcade Panel whatever it is should be able to map to it regardless of it markings like they do with controllers. Once its accepted format nothing is unusable.

OOOO OOOO

autoconfig is designed to map controllers to retropad not there original mappings

[barbudreadmon]

im guessing you mean it doesnt match the original mappings

No, i mean unplayable : at the very moment i map the ps1 arcade stick in the "rightful" way you recommend for the people who are not fools, i can't use any normal ps1/ps2 controllers through the playstation to usb adapter anymore because all buttons are switched, not only Ls and Rs; at the very moment i map the Hori FCs in the "rightful" way you recommend, not only the front R1/R2 become L1/L2 but also the actual triggers and shoulders get switched. You are so focused on playing mario kart with fightsticks (which is basically the same as trying to play king of fighters with a wiimote) that you didn't read any of my explanations above.

Now you don't want to follow the retropad 8 buttons panel recommendations (yes, the "fba modern" is the recommendation, in agreement with @fr500) for your own setup, that's fine, mame2003-plus support your custom setup, that's fine. But don't call people following the recommendation "fools".

[ghost]

you keep in saying mario kart and its any core that uses l-r l2-r2.

So it comes down to hori mapped as an arcade controlers messes up ps1/ps2 controllers so lets make this work and not have an arcade panel controls that work with retropad or any other cores.

It would be better to make a special retropad for this in fba HORI_gamepad and HORI_arcade pannel and map it to the standards there from the base setup to make these controllers usable or does the f/s have too many layouts to do this?

you dont like it when your l-r buttons are switched neither do i when using every other core the way it is now with modern. I think we should have a standard and HORI sticks shouldnt stop that standard working. A work around can be done for them in the fba and mame code base to reach the standards.

Rightful standards to me is a 8 panel works in all cores through the retropad model sorry if you dont agree with this. The retropad is there for a reason

[barbudreadmon]

So it comes down to hori mapped as an arcade controlers messes up ps1/ps2 controllers so lets make this work and not have an arcade panel controls that work with retropad or any other cores.

There is no solution to this, i already explained why.

you dont like it when your l-r buttons are switch neither do i when using every other core the way it is now

Playing games that are a bad fit for an arcade stick with an arcade stick is your choice, generally the people building bartop have alternative controllers for those games (mario kart and similar racing game are an example, games with analogs are another, ...), or for friends who don't like arcade sticks. I'm 100% ok with your choice if it fits you, as long as you don't call people following the recommandation "fools".

[ghost]

Well to be honest you arent thinking beyond fba and your choices mess other cores up.

With this kind of binding its not core compatible. Retropad is the gel to all cores to work on the controller you are using.

Setting that to a ps1 or modern is just a quick way of saying lets just match the labels printed on the controller screw the retropad standards and all other cores that use it it works this way in fba.

dont get me wrong this way does work and its why i previously set my arcade panel up to work on all other cores then used the tab menu in mame to fix my buttons up. I dont have to do this anymore now that we added the 8 panel.

[barbudreadmon]

screw the retropad standards

Y X R1 L2 B A R2 L2 is the retropad standard for 8 buttons panel. As i already explained, changing this would break support for tons of controllers, for the purpose of being able to play with an arcade stick a handful of games not fit at all for arcade sticks.

[ghost]

No this is a a sf2 psx fighstick format for fighters with l -r buttons swapped for all other cores. If you played a normal psx game on this you would change the buttons this only suits fighters

[barbudreadmon]

No this is a a sf2 psx fighstick format for fighters with l -r buttons swapped for all other cores.

No, this is the standard as agreed with @fr500.

[ghost]

Well its down to labeling of the fight stick it makes no sense for a RA core wide default. I dont think anyone has taken this into account. We will support both like I said thats not an issue. I just want something that works core wide as well

We have to use modern or 8 panel for this reason arcade panels set up to 123 456

this supports 99% of games. and gives us a consistent map that works for 99% of games f

[barbudreadmon]

I dont think anyone has taken this into account

As i already explained, changing this would break support for tons of controllers, for the purpose of being able to play with an arcade stick a handful of games not fit at all for arcade sticks.

[ghost]

Well your breaking every core that uses l-r L2 - R2 not just a handful of games. I can see this effecting old ps1/2 controllers i dont see it effecting anything modern as these devices will have a seperate .cfg controller file

[Wilstorm]

Just to be fair so it doesn't get out of hand of saying he called folks names. I don't think Grant called anyone a fool. He said...so people aren't fooled by the labels. Basically I mean he used it as a verb and not a noun.

I have to admit I do play console games on my arcade panel. I do find a great number of Atari, NES and SNES games that work well. It's a nice bonus.

Why would controllers be broken when this only affects panels which have no Retropad standard anyway?

[barbudreadmon]

Well your breaking every core that uses l-r L2 - R2 not just a handful of games

I want names !

Why would controllers be broken when this only affects panels which have no Retropad standard anyway?

I explained why + they have a retropad standard

[ghost]

I want names !

try play any psx emulator on your fight stick mapping ^^^^ this is the only one that possibly will work out right because its a psx mapping

any snes game that uses r - l

any other core that uses l-r

[Wilstorm]

I explained why + they have a retropad standard

Would you be willing to link the Retropad standard for arcade panels?

I think he means left side controls will be spatially located to the right and right sides controls will be spatially located to the left for consoles.

[ghost]

Would you be willing to link the Retropad standard for arcade panels?

this would be ideal dank said the this was a accepted standard but provided no information on it all i cab find is this

https://forums.libretro.com/t/6-8-button-arcade-cabinet-fight-stick-retropad-layout/11175

from the fisrt post

The alternative I see is to not have any such core option, and instead suggest that just one layout is used common to game pad or fight stick:

^ Y X L L2 < > B A R R2 v

However this won’t normally make much sense compared to the button labels on a modern fight stick, so could confuse users.

Which brings us back to the problem is we are using label names instead of a standard. This in turn makes a mockery of the retropad standard

this format really messes the standards up

6 button is generally accepted as Y X L B A R

8 panels need the l-r taken into account on the physical layout Y X L R B A L2 R2

[barbudreadmon]

any blahblah that uses r - l

Who cares ? Having R to the left of L isn't breaking those games more than trying to play them with an arcade stick where those buttons aren't triggers/shoulders. I want names of games where their spatial position is important, you seem to say there is more than the ones i already mentioned

this would be ideal dank said the this was a accepted standard but provided no information on it

I already mentioned them, https://github.com/libretro/fbalpha/issues/141 and all other discussions about fba mappings last year, @fr500 (the input guy of the libretro team) participated in all of them, and agreed to this mapping : Y X R1 L2 B A R2 L2 And again, you solution break support for many controllers for no benefits.

[ghost]

Well you seem to care when 8 panel swaps your ps1 controllers why shouldn't people care when it messes up other cores and does this to them?

The retropad is the mapping for RA Y X R1 L2 B A R2 L2

would never be accepted if a fight stick label scheme never existed on these controllers you basically made a standard to a controller marking instead of mapping it to a retropad model that is why other cores will never work with so many random layouts dictating the layout

[barbudreadmon]

many random layouts dictating the layout

They are not random, they are the result of years of research & development from professionals of the gaming industry.

[ghost]

@barbudreadmon there are fighsticks for fighters nothing more it to get the arcade experince on the console mapped to a ps/xbox controller

default arcade panel needs setup to 123 456

and cores need a static retropad layou to work

neither can be achived with random layouts

[barbudreadmon]

And you want to use those fightsticks for fighters for games that aren't fighters, that's the only issue i see here.

[ghost]

what im saying is you have no arcade layout just what your random fighstick as is is labeled as a layout

[ghost]

we need to achieve a
123 456

pattern for mame all these different layouts make that not workable because the physical buttons are moving depending on the panels labeling.

The same thing happens core wide the retropad is a static target. Thats why we should map to it like gamepads do

[barbudreadmon]

@grant2258 at this point i'm bored, you tell people they are fools because you disagree with them, you don't listen to anything i try to explain, you don't provide valid solution, you deny any kind of wisdom from the people who worked for years in the gaming industry. I asked @fr500 for help, i hope he will make a statement.

[ghost]

i did provide a solution i pretty bored explaining it myself you arent sticking to the ra model the solution is to map to it RA retropd standard that isint set yet.

forget the lables printed and stop hiding behind "the industy" this is just fightsicks for consoles not a controller mapping for RA or any arcade . map to RA retopad like every other controller does so you can use the controller in any core and the buttons work the same way on any controller when you press that physical button thats how the retropad model works