Page mod timeouts in broadcasts

[loepare]

It would be really useful, if page mods (official Broadcast team members) in Broadcasts could give a reason, why someone is timeouted just like normal moderators. Additionally the message when a page mod times out should be changed to something like "[User] was timed out 15 minutes by a page mod for [Reason]". Although every moderator gets hate, people often make a difference in how serious they take page mods compared to lichess mods. (Further discussions to that in the discord channel)

[nojoking]

If the ban comes from a page mod its often possible to ID the banner in a broadcast because of the study members/contributors listed below, which isn't ideal. I wouldn't remove listed contributors because it drives traffic to streamers.

[TBestLittleHelper]

The weirdness comes from how Lichess have expanded it's team a bit. This means that we might have Broadcast team members and others, who do not have any mod permissions (ie. see earlier related issue : https://github.com/lichess-org/lila/issues/10515 )

As every team leader etc. are page mods and as a "owner" of their respective chat rooms, they can timeout for any reason or no reason at all. While allowing them to pick a reason is fine, I think this fails to address the underlaying issue. Broadcast team members or others who do actions on behalf of Lichess, should probably have a permission of some kind. (Which would also allow such actions to show up in Mod Logs)

As the recruitment to broadcasts allows anyone to join (ie. public announcement in discord) , currently Mods have been hesitant to give out permissions to sitewide chat timeouts. In fact, it's great to have an open recruitment for people that would like to help lichess, that is not met with a "It’s not possible to apply to become a moderator" FAQ.

A couple of proposals from earlier discussion does come to mind.

All page mods should have an option to "timeout and report message to Lichess".

While potentially a good thing to have for all page mods, does not fully address the issue that broadcasters are page mods.

A (timeout) permissions that allows page mods to timeout as Lichess Mod and be monitored. But does not give global chat timeout and does not show timeout history (to avoid doxing mods).

Very similar to the earlier referenced 10515 issue, except there is a permission to give out now. I would not be surprised if Dev's would have the same feedback to this suggestion, since it seems very similar.

Organizationally, one could Indeed give out "chat timeout" , but this would likely raise the barrier of trust needed to join. While it's a goal to keep it as low as possible, particularly to gain new broadcast volunteers.

Dev wise, this means that everything is already there. We just needs to use it :) However, given that "chat timeout" has not been given out, perhaps the drawbacks does indeed warrant a different solution.

Ultimately, I am not sure what is the best approach. Neither options is perfect. Last time this was discussed in practice we picked the "Just allow the current status to remain for now." option.

[Yeltcki]

@TBestLittleHelper Thanks for your useful reply.

I personally think that content team members that have been working and making content and broadcasts for Lichess are not trusted enough.

I think the real problem is that content team people that have been working for months or years and that their goal is only to help Lichess are not given necessary permissions to help them with their work exactly like moderators are given all the needed permissions to find cheaters, boosters, sandbaggers or anyone breaking the Lichess Terms of Service.

For example, I have been working and doing content for Lichess for a year now, such as broadcasts, Lichess official titled arena puzzles, practice lessons (and we are still working on /practice for better content), twitch streams highlights, some thumbnails for the Lichess official YouTube channel, weekly sending curator message (I stopped a while ago), occasionally sending messages in the Lichsss productions team for Lichess streams, and I have been doing all of that because I love Lichess and really wanted to help.

And the only permission that I have on the site is making official Lichess broadcasts.

As I said, I am doing content and helping Lichess because I love Lichess and I want to help a free chess website - my goal is not to have permission and possibly abuse them.

But the problem is that everytime I am doing content I need to DM NoJoke or a mod with perms which is just a huge loss of time not only for me but also for him because since I don't have any permission I always need to DM him and most of the time he is busy or filled of things he needs to do such as Lichess blogs and sometimes he doesn't have time.

I have a lot of examples to give you, but I'll just give a few. For example, if a broadcast has a problem, content team people should be able to make themselves contributor to fix the issue. It happened many times that a broadcast that we're not contributor has a problem and we aren't able to do anything since we don't have the necessary permissions to do so. Another example would be that content team people should probably be given the permission to put a broadcast or Lichess stream on the homepage by adding a button. Sometimes there is a broadcast that stays on the homepage after the round is done and we can't do anything since we don't have the necessary permissions. It happened to me some time that the wrong link of a Lichess stream is on the homepage.

So giving content team some permissions to help them continue working and doing content for Lichess by being more productive would make more sense and would probably make more sense than for example just giving them the ability to "timeout and report" in broadcasts.

Additionally:

Organizationally, one could Indeed give out "chat >timeout" , but this would likely raise the barrier of >trust needed to join. While it's a goal to keep it as >low as possible, particularly to gain new >broadcast volunteers.

Then an option would be to not accept random people to the content team and discuss first with the team exactly like mods are discussed between the mod team.

[loepare]

@Yeltcki First to you: I absolutely agree with you on that feeling that often content members aren't really seen as "trustworthy" persons, But I can also understand, that since the only check that is been done for content members, is to see, how long their account exists, which means pretty much every random can get in. In terms of the permissions you wanted Broadcasters to have, these permissions all exist, you just don't have them (and neither do I). Some Broadcasters can create BigBlueButtons and some can add themselves to every existing broadcast, so it's just a question of you having these perms. In terms of messaging Nojoke about stuff, I do that very much because of other content stuff as well but I think it's Nojoke's decision on how much he wants to be involved (and in terms of that be messaged about stuff) and have the "power" to change something, since he is responsible for everything we do as community director, as far as I know.

@TBestLittleHelper In the End it is the decision of the mods how much they trust us, if you make a difference in trustworthiness between content members which are over half a year in the content team really active and the ones joined a few weeks ago not doing much or if we are all the same for you: "Randoms" coincidentally having some page mod perms in Broadcasts, without further importance. (don't mean to sound angry) I moderated chat in the candidates for many hours and I think it was worth it, since there were many people to time out when apparently no mod was in and I think that it is way easier for mods, if Broadcasters help to moderate (especially big) Broadcasts. It is not our (content member's) decision to say how the page mod system should be changed, although I just gotta say that the way it is, it is really annoying to moderate Broadcasts as "the page mod", always being "half-official" (member of an official Lichess team but our timeouts aren't official).

[Yeltcki]

@loepare I agree with you on everything, but I'm sure NoJoke does a bit more than just checking how long their account exists. I can't speak for him but I think he has a lot of requests and declines most of them, so it's not totally "randoms".

[loepare]

@loepare I agree with you on everything, but I'm sure NoJoke does a bit more than just checking how long their account exists. I can't speak for him but I think he has a lot of requests and declines most of them, so it's not totally "randoms".

We will have to ask him that, to my knowledge it's just the acc age and that the account isn't restricted ofc. @nojoking Would you like to share what It takes to get into the broadcast team?

[nojoking]

We've discussed a bit and it seems a "broadcast chat mod" permission would resolve this.

That is to say, a permission that allows one to be a chat mod ONLY on official broadcasts.

[loepare]

We've discussed a bit and it seems a "broadcast chat mod" permission would resolve this.

That is to say, a permission that allows one to be a chat mod ONLY on official broadcasts.

Would this perm be connected to relay permission?

[Yeltcki]

Would this perm be connected to relay permission?

If they implement this, I think it would be a new different permission (not connected to relay).

[loepare]

Would this perm be connected to relay permission?

If they implement this, I think it would be a new different permission (not connected to relay).

That's what I believe too, I mean if it is given at the same time as the relay perm