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Review difficulty and examples for overloaded practice #14219

Open TBestLittleHelper opened 11 months ago

TBestLittleHelper commented 11 months ago

I just played the 'tutorial' on overloading and some of those positions have no business being that hard. I think they don't illustrate the principle in a simple enough way. Anyway, it's not all about taking pieces, but also other responsibilities like defending a critical square, blocking a pawn, preventing a mate...

The feedback from this forum here https://lichess.org/forum/general-chess-discussion/question-about-chess-tactic-overloading#4 is good.

Many of the current examples are from famous games - which is cool but too complex puzzles for something that is currently placed under " basic tactics".

I made this issue so that anyone can suggest examples. The examples are "just" a regular study so a link to a study is a perfect way to suggest new things for the practice section. If you have specific questions feel free to ask here or in the Lichess Discord.

Yeltcki commented 10 months ago

Having created many of the practice lessons out there, here are my views (if I may express them):

First of all, let's be aware that there are many practice sections that are very closely related and that a lot of exercises in the practice section could belong to a different section. For example, 'attraction', 'deflection', 'overloaded pieces' and 'undermining' are all very closely connected. For instance, when you attract a piece in order to achieve a particular goal, that piece was (I would say in most cases) overwhelmed ; it was protecting two or more squares and/or pieces. So it may be hard to decide which exercise goes in which category since most of them are closely linked. In any case, here are my quick thoughts:

Overloaded # 10 ( https://lichess.org/practice/basic-tactics/overloaded-pieces/o734CNqp/j6JR1wiR ) could go in "attraction" since the idea behind Rb7 is to force the king to the b7 square to then go ahead with Qd7+ and e8=Q. It is therefore an attraction. Of course, one could argue that it also belongs to overloaded pieces since the black king defends two squares at a time, and it is not a false claim. However, as you raised up, some exercises are not appropriate for a beginner given their level of difficulty, which I think is the case for this exercise. Since attraction is in the 'intermediate tactics' section and overloaded pieces is in the 'basic tactics' section, we could move this exercise to 'attraction' since it would be more appropriate for an intermediate player.

Overloaded # 9 ( https://lichess.org/practice/basic-tactics/overloaded-pieces/o734CNqp/uSwO99Ht ) could go in 'undermining' because it would be more appropriate for an intermediate player (undermining is in the intermediate section), and the idea behind Qxe4 is to force Nxe4 and therefore remove the defender of the d1 square. As the previous exercise, one could also argue that this one also belongs to overloaded pieces, but since it is pretty hard it'd be better to put it in undermining hence intermediate tactics.

Overloaded # 8 ( https://lichess.org/practice/basic-tactics/overloaded-pieces/o734CNqp/Fqep6usb ) could go in either attraction or deflection, because it attracts the pawn to the d5 square (it has to take the bishop) and it also it deflects the pawn from defending the f5 square. By the way, attraction and deflection are all in intermediate tactics, which makes sense for this exercise to be there instead of in basic tactics.

Same goes for many other exercises in 'overloaded pieces', like https://lichess.org/practice/basic-tactics/overloaded-pieces/o734CNqp/bqmdo5fb is attraction, for example.

Let me know your thoughts, I'd be curious to see what you think. I agree that it may be hard to decide in which specific section to put an exercise since, as I said, they're all closely related, but we could still arrange it in a way that the harder ones go in intermediate tactics and the easy ones stay there so it can be more appropriate for beginners.

So yeah, that's it. Good luck with rearranging that.

avannaa commented 10 months ago

is this supposed to be for new players?? i remember thinking the overall difficulty level for the whole "practice" section was waaay too high, though i enjoyed the challenge..

the first examples are fine enough.. and then #6 is, like, an insane difficulty jump. #8 is also not quite easy, but it's a very interesting application of the theme.

in terms of categorization, #10 seems like "attraction" while #5 is good as "overloading", though one could argue it's all just semantics.. maybe my mind is focusing on the fact that on #5 we actually take a pawn so it's like the overloading is in having to defend both pieces, while attraction is "overload" but involving a square instead :p

Asfemi commented 7 months ago

well they might be in 'basic tactics' i have however always thought some being much more difficult to be part of the teaching as it stretches the learners mind to makes them improve and get to that level to be able to solve the puzzles.

soulessginger513 commented 5 months ago

anybody know the answer to #10? i looked it up and ended up here.

TBestLittleHelper commented 5 months ago

anybody know the answer to #10? i looked it up and ended up here.

Please try the answerer again, you might have gotten it wrong due to the same issue as in https://lichess.org/forum/lichess-feedback/interference-practice-problems-coded-incorrectly#3 . I lowered the threshold, so it should work for you now.

soulessginger513 commented 5 months ago

theres also another issue, not relevant but i just made a github account so i dont know how this works, but on #2 of knight and bishop mate lesson, it will not count as completed. dont know if you heard about that.