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Final Malakula Issues April 2017 #458

Open LauraWae opened 7 years ago

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Hi, @AvivaShimelman

Please note our questions and requests below. Thank you very much.

1. Questions and requests for action advice:

And is there another language then for Nasvang: Big Island? If yes, what's the original file name for that one?

2. Requests for sending:

Could you please upload the following files to \ownCloud\SndComp\Malakula\1 - LW DA - To Clean Up?

Thanks a lot, also.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Starting with Nasvang.

Name not correct. There used to be a recording – 48744574609 , wl_1620093_Nasvang_03_Farun – that was “Nasvang: Big Island” On the latest reference sheet, however, we have that number and label assigned to wl_1630130_Nasvang_Pimmilis. On the site it is Pimmilis that is playing (with correct correspondence sound/transcription). You do have the original Nasvang: Big Island (1620093) in your “to clean up/check sound folder” and the transcription for it in the big last sheet.

A.

170405LW: THANKS! Will upload the sound and the transcription corresponding sound file.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

wrt Nahavaq Yes, wl_0023 is Nahavaq:Elu I have shared the file with you from my OC. Here is the link, too. https://oc.gnz.mpg.de/owncloud/index.php/s/QfHCBe4TrDgYsRu It doesn't look like it's pre-edited, though. I don't have a pre-edited version of it , either, on my icloud. I'll be seeing my father on the 11th and I can have him bring my old flash drives. Otherwise, I can either re-pre-edit it or we can just drop it. Elu is a late (=recent) colony of Lembinwin. Any variarion between Elu and Lembinwin is idiolectic.

170504LW: Hey, you're the master of Malakula Languages, we are at your services and are grateful for any clearity. Re-pre-edit or drop? Thy wish shall be done ;)

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

wrt Tape. There are four people, all members of a single family, that speak Tape. There is a brother and a sister (which may mean that they are really what we would call first cousins, given family structure/kin terms). In any case, the brother lives in Tautu, the sister in Mae. She generally refers to the language as Maraxus (also the name of a mountain in the region that the language was formerly spoken, but claimed, sometimes, to be an exonym meaning "bushman"); he, usually, as Tape, but sometimes as "Tautu" (because his family has lived there for 3 generations). He has two sons, both of whom are quasi-speakers. The first Tape: Tautu recording was done with Lui alone. The second, with Lui speaking on behalf of the committee of three men (i.e., with father and brother coaching). It was one of the re-dos to remove inflection. My preference would be to treat the 163 recording as a supplement to the 15 recording, but leaving it as-is is defensible, given that both are extended.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Lawa wl_0018 - I have shared it with you from my OC It doesn't look like the pre-edited version, though, so I'll keep looking for that. Maybe you could look for it,too? Given that we do have the transcriptions, we must, at one point, have also had the pre-edited file. Did it never run on the website?

Uripiv Tautu 2 -- I know I dropped the ball on pulling that one out. On it now.

@AvivaShimelman 170405LW: THANKS.

_(I have searched the archive for any NindeLawa and did not find any related to our Malakula work [the only "lawa" that's appearing is the Aymara word for firewood ;)]. I actually cannot remember having worked at it, however, this is a very long time ago, so my memory is not 100% reliable ;). I cannot tell you, thus, if it ever had run on the website. The fact that it is not findable in the archive can mean that there has never been any.)

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Uripiv_TautuVillage recording uploaded to my 163 selected folder. One change in transcription: 'that' [otɔ-asɔ]

THANKS.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Also with regard to that TautuVillage recording: there were about 20 items that were just unsalvageable (bird noise). You'll notice the difference between when I am talking and when the speaker is. It's not just about the microphone. I made the poor consultant wait and fit responses in between chirps and then I massaged that recording for two hours. The 20 that were irretrievable were genuinely too noisy.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

@LauraWae So, here are the three things that are left, as far as I can tell: Nahavaq Elu. There is a Nahavaq Elu sound file on OC and a transcription on the compiled sheet from that year. Did Elu never run on the site? If it did, then there was necessarily a pre-edited file, too, at some point. Again, I'll ask my father to bring my old flash drives when I see him next Tuesday. I only have the long files on my OC or iCloud Ninde Lawa. Ditto. Only with that one I could swear I remember it running on the site. Or maybe not. Natanggan Veretemate. Pulling it back from the void at this point will mean going back to the original files from the recorder. Frankly, I need more breathing room at this point to get other things done. Let's turn it off for a while. My apologies.

A.

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

For LW:

Tag and extract and upload:

@PaulHeggarty Could you please turn off Natanggan: Veretemate? Thanks.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Laura,

Does that mean you found the edited files for Elu and Lawa?

A.

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 12:11 PM, LauraWae notifications@github.com wrote:

For LW:

Tag and extract and upload:

-

Nasvang: Big Island

Nahavaq: Elu

Ninde Lawa

Uripiv Tautu Village.

@PaulHeggarty https://github.com/PaulHeggarty Could you please turn off Natanggan: Veretemate? Thanks.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lingdb/Sound-Comparisons/issues/458#issuecomment-291912748, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARGKM8g43hdX4YlwYYNd4yUzfrpFAepvks5rs70xgaJpZM4MyyuI .

-- Aviva Shimelman, PhD

PaulHeggarty commented 7 years ago

I’ve turned off Natanggan: Veretemate?, as requested (but do you actually want it deleted permanently?)

Also, I’ve done a couple of hours of database housekeeping tonight, and found and fixed multiple problems. Above all, the entire 'multiple' set of languages, the last set, has been missing from the site and the excel language reference sheet for a while. There were also some bugs in the tree structure sheet. Those are now all fixed. There are now only five languages showing as having sound files missing, which seem to correspond to those listed above by @LauraWae.
We do slowly seem to be getting there!

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Numba wan! For cleanliness we can delete Veretemate if you just don't want hanging strings. If it's inoffensive, though, leave it and there's a possibility I can can pick it up again. By "multiple," do you mean the last, no-inflection round? That's not making a lot of sense to me. Two on Laura's list are actually from 2015. I'm still waiting to hear if I should (re?) pre-edit those.

A.

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 5:11 PM, Paul Heggarty notifications@github.com wrote:

I’ve turned off Natanggan: Veretemate?, as requested (but do you actually want it deleted permanently?)

Also, I’ve done a couple of hours of database housekeeping tonight, and found and fixed multiple problems. Above all, the entire 'multiple' set of languages, the last set, has been missing from the site and the excel language reference sheet for a while. There were also some bugs in the tree structure sheet. Those are now all fixed. There are now only five languages showing as having sound files missing, which seem to correspond to those listed above by @LauraWae https://github.com/LauraWae. We do slowly seem to be getting there!

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lingdb/Sound-Comparisons/issues/458#issuecomment-291998522, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARGKM_aNPeG1AkC68W0EKXHaiF13_Ev2ks5rtAOagaJpZM4MyyuI .

-- Aviva Shimelman, PhD

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Break-down of files not playing or without transcriptions (at least on version loading on my computer at 11:25 EST 6 4 2017):

“soon"s

Arrow only

170413LW: I changed the language index numbers of those on the Spreadsheets to extract SQLs. Now everything works fine. :)

Transcription only:

3, 4, 5, 14, 15 all have idiosyncratic explanations that have nothing to do with site mechanics. 7-13 are all “162” and have been being cranky like this for at least 2 months. Not all files of the same category are misbehaving, though, which really doesn't make sense. 1, 2, 6 – also doesn't make sense, given that all others of their ilk are working and playing well together with others.

A.

PaulHeggarty commented 7 years ago

What I mean by 'Multiple' is just the orange group here: screenshot - 2017-04-06 17_41_39

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Hi @AvivaShimelman

Thanks for offering to pre-select those.

I have cleaned up Ninde Lawa now by myself, following up the transcriptions. I hope this works well for you, too. When you said that you were busy with other things, my idea was to get as well started.

The files for Ninde: Lawa are already uploaded, please feel free to check here. :)

My plan was to continue with Nahavaq: Eluin the same procedure. If you agree, I will do so. I am ready to hear any objections, too.

In general, this editing work has the qualitiy to calm your mind when you do it without pressure. :)

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Fabu. Thanks. For the Ninde, I might make the following changes: 'neck' doesn't sound to me like it has the final [nɛ], so maybe it should be  [ᵐbolowoinɛ ] 'liver' sounds like it's missing it, so maybe it should be [nu-ᵐbupunɛ-nɛ] 'dog' has two transcriptions, but only the first has sound [kaːpox, no-ᵐboɣmen] , so I'd either the second sound should come in or the second transcription should go out (these are genuine synonyms, I believe). 'squeeze' [-ᵐbuš] 'seven' [-manaxowɔ ] 'ten' [naðlaᵑgal (sei)] 'twenty' [naðlaᵑgal xowɔ]

I've lost the thread, so please let me know which I offered to do.

A.

171104LW: I have applied those changes successfully :)

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Hi again! @AvivaShimelman

Sorry, here we go again... I could not find the transcriptions for Nahavaq: Elu in the sheets in folder 7 - Transcriptions Current - Aviva. Could you send this one, please, too?

I am sure you will enjoy life a little more after April, when there will be no more Laura, annoying you with things from the past... ;P

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Notes:

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Will do. (And absolutely will not be happier to not be hearing from you).

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 5:30 AM, LauraWae notifications@github.com wrote:

Hi again! Sorry, here we go again... I could not find the transcriptions for Nahavaq: Elu in the sheets in folder 7 - Transcriptions Current - Aviva. Could you send this one, please, too?

I am sure you will enjoy life a little more after April, when there will be no more Laura, annoying you with things from the past... ;P

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lingdb/Sound-Comparisons/issues/458#issuecomment-293203114, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARGKMzgpSrzH5x5YCCVlPQ2RxAGe7xqNks5ru0gcgaJpZM4MyyuI .

-- Aviva Shimelman, PhD

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Oh, okay, that's good to hear ;)

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

I've decided to just drop that last Nahavaq recording. We have a good set up already (4) and I've got some momentum going on the CLs. I'll ask Paul to put it on "off." We're done!

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 8:08 AM, LauraWae notifications@github.com wrote:

Oh, okay, that's good to hear ;)

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lingdb/Sound-Comparisons/issues/458#issuecomment-293875191, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARGKM3MI6taWoTzK-abFRk5yPq8x9NONks5rvhA_gaJpZM4MyyuI .

-- Aviva Shimelman, PhD

PaulHeggarty commented 7 years ago

It's Nahavaq: Elu, I presume, that you want switched off. I’ve just done so, please comment if it's not that one you meant.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Good. Thanks.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Paul Heggarty notifications@github.com wrote:

It's Nahavaq: Elu, I presume, that you want switched off. I’ve just done so, please comment if it's not that one you meant.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lingdb/Sound-Comparisons/issues/458#issuecomment-293982218, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARGKMxIR6mk2xsXbEsoFoX6E3j6LbeM4ks5rvmhsgaJpZM4MyyuI .

-- Aviva Shimelman, PhD

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Hi both. Good to see that progress. I am looking for the R-transcriptions of the Tape: Tautu recording. Any ideas, @AvivaShimelman ?

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

Its in that same folder with the rest. Its the only one labeled tape tautu. A.

Le 18 avr. 2017 6:20 AM, "LauraWae" notifications@github.com a écrit :

Hi both. Good to see that progress. I am looking for the R-transcriptions of the Tape: Tautu recording. Any ideas, @AvivaShimelman https://github.com/AvivaShimelman ?

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/lingdb/Sound-Comparisons/issues/458#issuecomment-294766718, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ARGKM4gatKjYJ5uFbxvibV5mdW9mRNIaks5rxI5YgaJpZM4MyyuI .

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Thanks, Aviva. I have uploaded them now.

@PaulHeggarty We can delete Tape: Tautu 2 from the database, and change the language that is called "Tape: Tautu 1" to "Tape: Tautu". Thanks.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

@LauraWae Just when you thought ...

Naha'ai Mbatmbang - It looks like we've got some sound/transcription mis-matches. The sound is always right. It's that the transcription "skips up" by a line. So, for example, 'wet' and 'dry' are usually elicited in that order. But 'wet' has the transcription for 'dry'. Both are matched with the right sound, though.

170425LW: I have corrected this in the SQL sheet. Waiting to extract to upload it. Uploaded. All correct now. 👍

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

@LauraWae Mornin'! I uploaded the northern set (Wowo-Alavas, V'ao). V'ao has got a lot of bird noise in the background (semi-outdoor recording at 17:00). The speaker does generally manage to beat the birds when he's talking, but the darn chirpers can be heard immediately at the edges. (Sorry!). There's a set of about 20 items that I've reserved in a separate column (it'll be obvious). There's nothing that has to be done with those right now.

A.

AvivaShimelman commented 7 years ago

@LauraWae Morning! Are you going to need more recordings to play with today? I've put Avava, Fifti and Tasmbol in the common folder. Please, please, please do them in that order and take them one by one, i.e., only as you do them. That way, if there have to be changes, those can be made before anything gets into the gears. I forgot to say with regard, in particular to the V'ao recording: Sometimes consultants give two different forms. Both will appear in the transcription and on the recording. In the transcriptions, I separate alternative forms with commas. This is the only purpose for which I use commas, so a quick, old-fashioned search will pick them out if you worry you didn't catch them. I think I remember Paul saying that there is a way to register two different responses. If there isn't, I've put my first pick, not counter-intuitively, first. There re never too many of these (anywhere from 0-6 in any recording?). It can be important to record both in cases, for example, where one form is cognate with those in neighboring languages to one side and the other with neighboring languages on the other side. I'll be going to sleep soon so I'm afraid I won't be able to respond to emails until all the hustle and bustle of "Jena Tuesday" has slowed.

LauraWae commented 7 years ago

Please comment on BV here. Thanks.