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lipu-linku / pali-nimi

kulupu o alasa pona e sona nimi
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pu and ku #36

Open jnpoJuwan opened 1 year ago

jnpoJuwan commented 1 year ago

pu

sona pu

ADJECTIVE interacting with the official Toki Pona book

sona Linku pi toki Inli

interacting with the official Toki Pona book

sona Linku pi toki pona

ijo li kepeken lipu nanpa wan pi toki pona la ijo li pu

sona ku

interact with Toki Pona: The Language of Good⁵, officially²

sona sin

ku

sona pu

sona Linku pi toki Inli

interacting with the Toki Pona Dictionary by Sonja Lang

sona Linku pi toki pona

lipu nanpa tu pi jan Sonja la, sina lukin e ona la sina ku. sina kepeken ona la sina ku.

sona ku

sona sin

due to these being very specific words, their definition is a bit simpler and I hope that this discussion is short to just get it out there either this below or removing 'to', in my opinion the meaning of the book itself (more commonly lipu pu and lipu ku) should be left in the commentary

pu

to interact with the book Toki Pona: The Language of Good by Sonja Lang

ku

to interact with the Toki Pona Dictionary by Sonja Lang

Daenyth commented 1 year ago

👍 we could also include the book itself as a meaning, since it's frequently shortened like that anyway. But I'd also be fine with that as a commentary note, it's possible that the shortening is something we do more in English than tp. I'm not sure

KelseyHigham commented 12 months ago

why not leave it as "interacting with"?

janPensa commented 12 months ago

I think we should also consider a translation that reflects the words' meaning in expressions like "nasin pu" and "nimi ku". Those uses of the words don't really directly have to do with the act of interacting with the book, IMO.

"nimi pu/ku" means a word that appears in the respective book, and "nasin pu" means the nasin taught in the pu book, or a nasin that more or less corresponds with it. I guess you could vaguely describe those together as "related to" the book, or "characterized by" the book?

"nasin ku" makes some sense in theory, but it makes very little practical sense to use it. So you for ku you only need to accommodate "nimi ku", and you could go with something like

to interact with the Toki Pona Dictionary by Sonja Lang; (of a word) to appear in said book

For "pu" we'd need a third translation or a broader one.

But if we want a concise definition, this stuff could also easily be moved to the commentary.

why not leave it as "interacting with"?

The -ing comes from the way pu analyzes intransitive verbs as adjectives, and insists on reflecting that in the translations. A convention that we're probably moving away from, seeing as we hardly differentiate between verb/noun/modifier to begin with. Sonja herself also changed it to "interact" in the translations for "pu" and "ku" in the ku dictionary.

However, the -ing form could be useful if we want to go with something like "interacting with or related to the book Toki Pona: The Language of Good by Sonja Lang", to avoid having to mention the book twice. "To interact with or be related to ..." doesn't work as well IMO.

jnpoJuwan commented 12 months ago

I think that 'related to' is fine:

... (of a word or manner of speech) related to said book

unrelated to this, how should translators translate these definitions? in my opinion, the languages with translations of pu (at the time of writing, but this may change, English, French, German, Esperanto) and ku (only English) should have the titles translated, all others stick to English. (as more books get translated, so do these definitions)