lupa

[lipamanka]

lupa

sona pu

NOUN door, hole, orifice, window

sona Linku pi toki Inli

door, hole, orifice, window

sona Linku pi toki pona

lupa la ijo li ken tan ma tawa insa ijo; lupa mute li sama sike; soweli mute li awen lon lupa

sona ku

hole⁵, door⁵, orifice⁴, pit⁴, window³, gate³, entrance², opening², gap², dig²

sona sin

[AcipenserSturio]

Discussion starters from me:

hole is more important than door

[lipamanka]

I agree! door is still a good example. I think we should add a couple more. Honestly trying to distill my lupa rambles into a very short definition is. not really possible. Unfortunately, english doesn't have specific words for more examples of holes, but I'd like to illustrate examples of both hole as in "I dug a hole in the ground" and hole as in "push the thread through the hole" right

door and window are both holes you can pass through and come out the other end. So perhaps we should add valley? I'll list my ideas:

• valley. might make lupa and nena seem too much like opposites though, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.
• divot. though this can also refer to the displaced soil and is mostly used in golf contexts, not sure why I thought it was a common word people know because I did NOT grow up golfing lmao. this might also be extremely specific if my usage is unique (as in, I call all little holes divots, NEVER have I played golf) IDK
• burrow. this could be nice bc it's a little hole in the ground, and it's about as specific as window anyway.
• pit. this one is nice bc it's very general and works! I think we should definitely add this one
• sinkhole, waterhole, etc. these words already have "hole" in their name so it might be redundant but I thought I'd mention.

my ideas: valley, divot, burrow, pit, sinkhole, waterhole

[AcipenserSturio]

I would also like to bring up "tunnel"

[lipamanka]

GENIUS!

another thing: anyone remember socks? they come on ma pona every now and then. once we talked about the possibility of lupa being used for portals. it might be a bit over the top but I think it might fit. just wanna throw it out there as a ✨ possibility ✨

[KelseyHigham]

i like these ones: hole, pit, tunnel, door, window

[lipamanka]

I think that's good! Let's wait until like tomorrow to see if anyone else has anything to say but I'm very happy with that phrasing

[KelseyHigham]

descriptively, everyone uses lupa for VRChat portals. i wouldn't mind adding it. honestly it feels redundant with hole and door

[lipamanka]

I suppose. Actually I feel like adding portal here would include usage from the vr chat community, i.e. an off-discord community, helping linku be less biased towards discord usage. (that's why I'm particularly happy with our team, because we have so many people who speak toki pona off of discord, including IRL and on other platforms)

[KelseyHigham]

hole, pit, tunnel, door, window, portal

[AcipenserSturio]

I second portal - if you apply it to game logic, its obviously a good lupa. If you apply it to everyday objects logic, that's just a door without the swingy bit, so also obviously a lupa

[AcipenserSturio]

In fact I'm going to :rocket: that definition unless/until someone has anything new in mind

[lipamanka]

i think cave might fit better than tunnel. for tunnel i think more of nasin, and while they can be lupa, cave is better. or both!

[AcipenserSturio]

I tried tunnel specifically for the both-ends-open kind of lupa, but I agree it ends up nasinny. do you have any other lupas of this kind in mind? cave fits better with the one-end-open kind of lupa.

[lipamanka]

yeah, window and door are both two opening lupa, which is why i said we needed more examples of one opening lupa

[AcipenserSturio]

Pitching the version without "tunnel":

hole, pit, door, window, portal

Until/unless someone has something to add

[lipamanka]

i'd prefer to have either tunnel or cave in there but i'm fine with this too for the time being

[AcipenserSturio]

Oh shit right.

hole, pit, cave, door, window, portal

[tbodt]

should we clarify open door? a closed door is more of a sinpin

[KelseyHigham]

i'm open to that, but hm, i personally use lupa to refer to closed doors. it might be pini but it's still a lupa

[gregdan3]

i actually brought this up the other day in vr hangout: using lupa for door in general has always weirded me out a bit. what i said then was that i am unable to convince myself it is an appropriate use of the word

i wouldn't really call a closed door a lupa; the lupa is only present elsewhen (yes elsewhen). an open door is a lupa. collectively though, they're a nasin, no?

nasin ni li wan e tomo tu. ni la sina ken lon tomo wan li ken tawa tomo ante lon nasin. nasin li ken open li ken pini.

relatedly, don't we use "door" to refer to both the passage (the doorway) and the large, flat, front-facing surface that swings on its hinges (the door itself)? "go through the door" demonstrates this

so, i'm comfortable with "doorway" being in the definition but not with "door" i don't think.

[KelseyHigham]

ooh, i like doorway

[AcipenserSturio]

:rocket: candidate, taking into account the door -> doorway discourse:

hole, pit, cave, doorway, window, portal

[lipamanka]

I talked about this in my lupa rambles: a closed door is still a lupa because it has the potential to open and it lets things pass through. but doorway is probably better if you start thinking about it too hard and consider that the door itself is the big wood thing. hinges help tho

[Th3Scribble]

i think "doorway" is probably better than "door", i wouldn't call the door itself lupa. i think i agree that a closed door is still lupa, since the potential is still there. also a window is lupa, even the pane of glass itself, because it lets light through. or maybe it's not that the glass is lupa, but that the window does not need to be able to open to still be a lupa for lukin. from the perspective of light, a window is a hole. wow this is a really good word for rambling

[lipamanka]

we're in agreement. when people say "door" often they're talking about the doorway. but doorway serves pedagogy better so it's probably better. and YES you can SEE why I rambled for so LONG about it

[lipamanka]

in VC with kulupu kasi, @Th3Scribble, and @AcipenserSturio and kulupu kasi wants to remove portal, because "portal" means "doorway" [+magic], and jan Seli said portal comes from the latin word for "doorway" which is true. any further thoughts, or should we remove portal? I personally like it in there.

[gregdan3]

portal is not the same thing as doorway in English even if they are related by etymology

a reader would probably think of cool magic hole in reality when reading "portal", no?

Like, in English I'd only consider them similar by analogy. They're distinct things with similar functions and hole-havings.

[mazziechai]

I'm moving this word into a final comment period. Please see the attached PR #20. On 19 Aug at 00:00 UTC, the PR will be merged into main.