lizzieinvancouver / grephon

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hypotheses and glossary #29

Closed lizzieinvancouver closed 3 weeks ago

lizzieinvancouver commented 10 months ago

See also issue #25 ... List of all hypotheses (team?): @FrederikBaumgarten @AileneKane @kavs-P -- @FrederikBaumgarten will schedule meeting ASAP/make it happen ... they will consult with @alanaroseo

Please just work on here, or add new tex file to repo!

AileneKane commented 4 months ago

@rdmanzanedo Nice! I think they both look good and will be interested to hear what others think! i like the one with internal vs external as it aligns with the text, but agree dividing the different hypotheses gets tricky sometimes...Writing the legend for this figure will take a bit of time i think!

alanaroseo commented 4 months ago

I like both too. I think the it is hard to put all into internal external categories (e.g. species specific differences), maybe a layout like the first option but with symbols for internal/external so that some can have both?

On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 at 6:30 AM, AileneKane @.***> wrote:

@rdmanzanedo https://github.com/rdmanzanedo Nice! I think they both look good and will be interested to hear what others think! i like the one with internal vs external as it aligns with the text, but agree dividing the different hypotheses gets tricky sometimes...

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lizzieinvancouver commented 4 months ago

@rdmanzanedo Amazing! Thanks for doing this and thanks to @AileneKane @alanaroseo and @FrederikBaumgarten for all the help.

I have been trying to re-write the paper around external, internal and species-differences (a complicating factor for both external and internal) ... and interested to hear thoughts. For this figure it would mean 'population and species specific' could become 'population-level limits to growth' or such ... and then we'd have to move species outside (and divide up the hypotheses in that box).

rdmanzanedo commented 4 months ago

Great, if the text is going to be more in line with internal/external, then yeah, I agree with Ailene and Alana that the internal/external would be better!

lizzieinvancouver commented 4 months ago

@rdmanzanedo Thanks for this! I think it looks good for now and seems on me to get the text together for us all to look at. I made good progress over the weekend ... but did not finish, and now feeling a little underwater again. Hoping to resurface in a few days to early next week! Thanks everyone for your patience.

lizzieinvancouver commented 3 months ago

Parking a few things I would like to review ....

Figure changes ... someday to consider

FrederikBaumgarten commented 2 months ago

Hi Lizzie Here is brief method description: Hypothesis were gathered by reviewing all publications that entered the meta-analysis for clearly stated hypothesis or analog research questions that were specifically addressed in the results (e.g. hypothesis testing). After extraction, each hypothesis was assigned to a broader main hypothesis (or hypothesis cluster) displayed in Fig. X. Studies addressing multiple hypothesis could end up in several hypothesis clusters. XX articles were discarded as they didn't provided a clear enough formulation of the knowledge gap they aimed to address.

All papers minus papers with assigned hyp = discarded paper not addressing properly

@kavs-P and @AileneKane: Do you agree? Did I forget anything? @AileneKane Can you help with the specific number issues?

Best, F

AileneKane commented 2 months ago

@lizzieinvancouver @rdmanzanedo @kavs-P Following up on Lizzie's parked items above:

AileneKane commented 2 months ago

@lizzieinvancouver For your item

AileneKane commented 2 months ago

for "Longer growing season != more growth" I got 11 papers ... (see https://github.com/lizzieinvancouver/grephon/blob/main/analyses/output/hyp_summarytab2.csv ) @FrederikBaumgarten classified soolanayakanahally2013 under multiple different hypotheses, including this one. I defer to he and @lizzieinvancouver unless you want me to take another look and offer a 3rd opinion!

AileneKane commented 2 months ago

@lizzieinvancouver Thank you for keeping track of all the hypothesis assignments in this issue! I think those updates are the root of the discrepancies between the hypotheses figure and table. I have not updated the hypothesis table but I believe you have, based on all the notes and decisions in this issue. If you'd like me to go back and check that all papers are coded correctly there please let me know.

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

I talked with @FrederikBaumgarten on 2 May about some queries, mostly my concern that longer growing season != more growth seems to me like a larger category under which some of the other categories could fall under (e.g., population-specific responses) ... after a long discussion my plan is to use the other info in the table to try to re-classify into hypotheses that fit with the figure we actually have. So I am re-checking all of longer growing season != more growth AND earlier-longer-more growth (some of this relates to dealing with concerns from @cchambe12 on the last review, which I broadly agree with) and probably will just do a general check and re-assign.

Columns ... @AileneKane @kavs-P @FrederikBaumgarten

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

In the paper, we use earlier-longer-more growth to focus mostly on the idea that more time means more growth. Based on what is in the table, that seems right for about half the papers assigned this, but I was not sure so I checked the following and believe they fit (though I think people are pretty vague on this generally):

I started skimming this one and am not sure it counts, they talk mostly about WARMER seasons. @AileneKane Can you check? Again, I only skimmed...

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

@AileneKane For Richardson2020, can you fit in one of these categories?

"Carbon fertilization"                               "effect of growth rate not equal to growth duration"
 [4] "Higher temp = more growth (temp limitation)"        "internal constraints (including pop, photo)"        "Longer growing season != more growth"              
 [7] "Longer growing season = more growth"                "More temp = more drought (drought limitation)"      "shift in allocation"                               
[10] "shift of whole pheno sequence"                      "species-specific responses"

And update on:

@AileneKane Can you check? Again, I only skimmed... Stridbeck2022 -- AKE (file includes "At treeline temperature-growth relationships are remain positive during the summer")

I just figured out that earlier-longer-more growth is divided into two categories and Stridbeck ends up in `Higher temp = more growth (temp limitation)' so we are all set. Please ignore that query!

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

After my preliminary edits, I ended up with these categories (the numbers are not be right; they are the RAW numbers before Ailene's code makes some changes):

@FrederikBaumgarten Can you confirm what hypothesis we should have for zhu2021 and for chen1998? I think one is More temp = more drought (drought limitation) and the other really is no hypothesis. Can you confirm? Including which is which? It was not clear above.

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

@lizzieinvancouver Thank you for keeping track of all the hypothesis assignments in this issue! I think those updates are the root of the discrepancies between the hypotheses figure and table. I have not updated the hypothesis table but I believe you have, based on all the notes and decisions in this issue. If you'd like me to go back and check that all papers are coded correctly there please let me know.

@AileneKane I thought I had, but today as I went through things again, I was not so sure.

  1. I would appreciate if you could check that things seem coded correctly, I would much appreciate it. I could also use your help to ...
  2. review the hypothesis code in general. It's in hypothesest.R (I updated this today to create a new column that I think matches the paper and thus figure better) and then end of whathappened.R and ...
  3. also build a table we can add to the supp ....

Sorry, I realize this is a pain, but it has become a really nice part of the paper and I want to make sure we are doing it correctly. Let me know if you have questions/issues and thank you!

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver after reviewing Richardson, i think it is addressing 3 different hypotheses listed (the paper actually sets out to test 4 different possibilities but 2 of them fit into temperature limitation i think and "Longer growing season != more growth" could be replaced with shift in whole pheno sequence. I think "species specific responses" is tested as well, because they compare species and note differences across evergreen- deciduous groups. Its ok to have multiple hypotheses for it right? I updated hypothesis.R to -removed "Longer growing season != more growth" since you no longer want that.
-replaced it with "shift in whole pheno sequence" -add "species specific responses" (There are now 3 rows for Richardson

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver and @FrederikBaumgarten i also checked chen 1998, which seems to be motivated the "missing carbon sink"- I think we could call this one CO2 fertilization as they say "this sink might be found in undisturbed terrestrial ecosystems in which carbon sequestration has increased as a result of increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration (i.e. CO2 fertilization) and nutrients in soils.." I have updated the "hypotheses.R" file to make this change.

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver the other way that i checked hypotheses is to make a table here that includes our decisions about "authors_looked_external" and "authors_looked_endogenous" with the hypotheses we designated to see if they align (i.e., that for hypotheses that we deem "external" there is "yes" in the "authors_looked_external" and that for hypotheses we deem "internal" there is a "yes" in the "authors_looked_endogenous" column). They mostly do, but I found a few that don't (which doesn't necessarily mean our selected hypothesis is wrong, but i thought it was worth double checking these). The ones that do not align are chen1998 (which had no hypothesis, but was changed to c fertilization above), cufar2014, eckes-shephard2020, finzi2020,moser2019, oddi2022, silvestro2023,

i will plan to check these, and also get started on the table. Let me know if there are other specific papers you'd like me to check.

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

i also checked chen 1998, which seems to be motivated the "missing carbon sink"- I think we could call this one CO2 fertilization as they say "this sink might be found in undisturbed terrestrial ecosystems in which carbon sequestration has increased as a result of increasing atmospheric CO2 concentration (i.e. CO2 fertilization) and nutrients in soils.."

I am fine with this change personally (FYI, I probably will go back and look at the three CO2 fertilization papers to understand how that is really a mechanism for longer seasons leading to more growth ... they seem sort of unrelated to me). I chatted with @rdmanzanedo and we plan to put these in just the caption.

They mostly do, but I found a few that don't (which doesn't necessarily mean our selected hypothesis is wrong, but i thought it was worth double checking these). The ones that do not align are chen1998 (which currently has no hypothesis), cufar2014, eckes-shephard2020, finzi2020,moser2019, oddi2022, silvestro2023,

@AileneKane Thanks for all your work on this. I think one problem is those external and internal rules come from way before we re-organized to fit all mechanisms into external and internal. So  cufar2014, eckes-shephard2020, oddi2022, silvestro2023 all have no to both columns, but if they had a hypothesis it really should fit into one or the other column based on our current definitions, but back then our definitions were:

I think any that mention TIME implicit or explicit as the factor will probably be entered as no no and that is okay to me. It was hard to tell if the others are wrong as the column names seem the same (authorslooked_externalfactors repeated twice?)

Which was all done before issue #22 when I reorganized into the current versions of these terms.

Finally, I suggest we have richardson be 'shift in whole pheno sequence' as the species groupings seem more about functional types and that's not how we present it in our paper (or how the other papers working on species look at it -- they look specifically at species).

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver ok! I removed species-specific responses from richardson and kept in shift in whole pheno sequence.

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

and i corrected the column names in the checkhyp table- sorry about that!

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

and i corrected the column names in the checkhyp table- sorry about that!

So quick! Thanks @AileneKane ... and I agree with you that finzi2020,moser2019 seem a little weird!

Let me know when you think the numbers are good to go for @rdmanzanedo to work on a new figure and thank you again!

rdmanzanedo commented 1 month ago

Notes from chatting between Rubén-Lizzie on final update of the figure:

There has been some neutral drift in the categories- We need to merge them and join with the last version (Comment March 8).

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver in checking Finzi, i think they also tested hypotheses related to internal drivers (external factors- carbon fertilization and temperature limitation). E.g., they say "Integrating site-based, long-term, data sets (e.g., provides the opportunity to separate the contributions of C accumulation into internal drivers of ecosystem development (i.e., regrowth and structural and compositional changes following disturbance, nutrient cycling) and global change drivers (e.g., temperature, CO2, invasive insects, atmospheric deposition, land use). " and their results include analyses of changes in forest species composition and biomass allocation to aboveground vs different below ground/soil categories.

So, I added hypotheses for Finzi that also included "species-specific responses" and "shifting allocation" to this one to the "hypothesest.R" file. Please let me know if you disagree.

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver moser hypotheses look correct

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver for now i put the code to set up the hypotheses table with references in the bottom of "whathappened.R" and saved a .csv of the file, that should be pretty easy to read in a make into a table in the manuscript. Currently just has 3 columns: hypothesis, number of studies, and list of refs. please let me know if you want anything different/additional.

Perhaps you could add to the sweave file? Or If you'd like me to add it to the Rnw file please let me know if you'd like in in the supplement or manuscript.

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver in checking Finzi, i think they also tested hypotheses related to internal drivers (external factors- carbon fertilization and temperature limitation). E.g., they say "Integrating site-based, long-term, data sets (e.g., provides the opportunity to separate the contributions of C accumulation into internal drivers of ecosystem development (i.e., regrowth and structural and compositional changes following disturbance, nutrient cycling) and global change drivers (e.g., temperature, CO2, invasive insects, atmospheric deposition, land use). " and their results include analyses of changes in forest species composition and biomass allocation to aboveground vs different below ground/soil categories.

So, I added hypotheses for Finzi that also included "species-specific responses" and "shifting allocation" to this one to the "hypothesest.R" file. Please let me know if you disagree.

@AileneKane Thanks for working on this! It's hard to know whether to add these hypotheses from Finzi without having looked at other papers, but from what you sent I feel like they are talking about separating things perhaps not related to longer seasons ("internal drivers of ecosystem development (i.e., regrowth and structural and compositional changes following disturbance, nutrient cycling)") and then separately "global change drivers" (including longer seasons). Right now our hypotheses of "species-specific responses" and "shifting allocation" are specific to reasons you do not see increases with longer seasons and this feels pretty different to me. I would personally not add these based on these sentences, but you have read the full paper so will trust you if you think they mean 'we hypothesize longer seasons do not lead to more growth because some species do not grow more with longer seasons' and 'we hypothesize longer seasons do not lead to more growth because they shift allocation to roots or other places.'

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

Perhaps you could add to the sweave file? Or If you'd like me to add it to the Rnw file please let me know if you'd like in in the supplement or manuscript.

@AileneKane Amazing -- thank you! I source whathappened.R in the supp (and main text but I think the table should go in the supp) so if you could just wrap the dataframe in a quick xtable and add a quick table to the supp I could finalize it. But no worries if you do not have time as you have done a TON already.

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver I pasted a table at the end of the supp. I couldn't get the file to compile (even before I added the table) so wasn't able to check the formatting- will likely require some tweaking of column widths, etc. If you want me to work on that, let me know!

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

@AileneKane Thank you for the amazing work to add the references into a table! I was able to fix the error in the table (it showed up if you just paste it into the end of whathappened.R) and fixed some citation errors, but I am still getting the following bibtex errors I cannot track down:

Database file #1: ..//bibtex/grephonbib.bib
Warning--I didn't find a database entry for "."
Warning--I didn't find a database entry for "zohner2023effecteffect"
Warning--I didn't find a database entry for "sebastian-azcona2020"

And the output looks odd to me. Any ideas on how to fix these problems would be most welcome!

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver I've updated the code to resolve those warnings. please let me know if it still doesn't work for you.

AileneKane commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver I removed the new Finzi hypotheses i had added lastweek because they were not as specific as you stated above. i believe the paper counts are ready to go

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

@AileneKane Thank you! The table is working (needed longtable in the preamble), but can you check the methods text that I have in the supp:

We returned to the papers to also assess them for which hypotheses they addressed. For this, we reviewed papers for stated hypotheses and/or analogous research questions that were specifically addressed in the results (e.g. hypothesis testing). After this we grouped each hypothesis to a broader main hypothesis (or hypothesis cluster) displayed in Fig. \ref{fig:hypotheses}. We extracted all hypotheses/questions from each paper, resulting in many papers had more than one hypothesis (\Sexpr{nrow(morethanonehyp)} of \Sexpr{papernum} papers).

@rdmanzanedo think categories for the figure are (in whatever order makes sense, feel free to shorten the phrasing a little as needed):

After looking at the citations I think we should keep internal constraints and species-specific responses separate because one of the citations does not include populations so does fit with species to me.

We still need to:

Thank you both @AileneKane and @rdmanzanedo for your help!

rdmanzanedo commented 4 weeks ago

got it! on my to-do list. Thanks indeed both for all the meticulous checking! 😄

AileneKane commented 4 weeks ago

@lizzieinvancouver the methods text looks good, except for one typo toward the end. I suggest replacing "resulting in many papers had more than one hypothesis" with "resulting in many papers addressing multiple hypotheses"

rdmanzanedo commented 3 weeks ago

@lizzieinvancouver Ok, great, so added these changes and had to rearrange a bit to make it make more sense in my brain (but happy to discuss quickly). So, I slightly rearranged because I think it made more sense that external>deltaGSL are the ones that have increase in the width of the curve and external>more.temp are the ones that do not change the width of the curve, does that make sense to all?

then the category 'internal constrains' we dind't had in previous versions, so I put it in internal and I assuming we are interpreting this as similar to shift in allocation but without a shift in allocation (something physiological preventing response to changing conditions). Is that correct?

The new figure: Figure 1_conceptual_ver2

for the caption, the width of the shaded areas in the #studies is proportional to the number of studies, and the last column is the 'expected growth response' for each of the mechanisms.

It could be possible to argue that the external/internal separation is a bit artificial (since the resposnes to deltaGSL or incr.temp are similarly driven by internal constrains or limitations), but I do see the value of separating these, maybe the word internal/external are a bit too broad. Maybe we can explain in the text somewhere that we meant external as those mostly driven by changes in environmental conditions and internal those most affected by physiological limitations. ??

lizzieinvancouver commented 3 weeks ago

@rdmanzanedo Thank for you this! It looks great and I think your choices make sense. Could you change the first column to be # of papers (not studies) as that is how we counted these? Could you also send me the SVG so I can have it on the repo?

lizzieinvancouver commented 3 weeks ago

@rdmanzanedo I think we explain external and internal in the main text, but I have edited the caption now to read:

Climate change may alter growing season (GS) length, which can then affect growth through diverse pathways. We review hypotheses for these pathways showing the number of papers (from a review of papers studying growth $\times$ growing season length) that mentioned each hypothesis (width of the shaded areas of left column is proportional to the number of papers with the number also given, right column shows the expected growth response for each hypothesis). We group hypotheses as focused on mechanisms moderated by the environment (`external') versus those focused on internal physiological constraints, which span both source (photosynthesis-limited) and sink limitation. For more details, see Supplement.

lizzieinvancouver commented 3 weeks ago

@AileneKane Thanks! I made your edits to the methods. If you have any comments on the caption for figure let me know.

rdmanzanedo commented 3 weeks ago

@rdmanzanedo Thank for you this! It looks great and I think your choices make sense. Could you change the first column to be # of papers (not studies) as that is how we counted these? Could you also send me the SVG so I can have it on the repo?

Sure, sent it with the small change ;)

lizzieinvancouver commented 3 weeks ago

@rdmanzanedo Thank you! And thanks to @AileneKane for all your help.

lizzieinvancouver commented 3 weeks ago

Just submitted so I think this is all set -- thank you again!