Rebalance items (grenades etc)

[wortkarg]

I think, that some items must be buffed, especially some grenade types. Item slots are limited and hence weak grenades/items are rarely used, if at all.

1) Shaped Charge SC is almost never used. Extremely short range, only env. damage, loud as hell (the last can be sometimes used to draw attention, but mostly it's a bad thing). I have used it sometimes on jailbreak missions, but it's so situational and there are a lot of better alternatives for this item slot. My suggestion: +1 (or +2) range and 2 charges

2) Gas grenades/bombs They are not really bad, but there are better alternatives. Flashbangs disable enemy abilities and it's mostly better than small damage that gas grenades do (flashbang = no grenades, no muton counter-attack, no psi etc). BS/string grenades are a lot better. Incendiary grenades are god sent, not only they do direct damage, they have a very good chance to disable enemies for 2 turns. Frag/plasma grenades are good for destroying cover and for doing instant damage. My suggestion: +1 direct (instant) damage

3) Acid grenades/bombs What's the point of acid grenades? They have the same radius as incendiary grenades, but IG do significantly more damage and, more importantly, disable enemies for 2 turns. Rupture? It's only +1. Armor shredding? It's probably the only strength of acid grenades, but except for sectopods there are not that many enemies with good armor and there are a lot of alternatives, how to shred armor or deal with sectopods (Kubikiri, FO, Shredder Rounds, combined with multi-shot abilities etc). My suggestion: +2 Rupture.

4) EMP grenades/bombs They are ok, but a bit situational. My suggestion: increase a stun chance a little?

5) Mindshield They are almost useless. We must either equip all soldiers with mindshields or nobody (ok, or soldiers with a low will). Psi attacks are not that scary, moreover they are often better as shooting. It's the waste of the item slot. My suggestions (either or): a) Area effect (+X to will or immunity to psi attacks or canceling of MC/panic). Radius can be adjusted accordning to the strength of the effect. b) More immunities/boni like immunity to disorientation/stun effects or some of the fire/poison/acid/explosive.

[Grobobobo]

Check the pinned message in #suggestions for what I want rebalanced. Even then, that's a while away.

[wortkarg]

Ah, i see, all grenade types are already listed there, Shaped Charges and Mindshields are not though.

[Grobobobo]

Mind shields do not need a buff because of the fatigue mechanic, and soon to be higher threat of the chosen. For shape charge, I can't think of a reason why you'd bring them at all, they need a rework not a buff.

[wortkarg]

@Grobobobo i post your list from discord here (as info):

Here are some potential changes to the equipment I'm considering post-relase:

Flashbangs - disorient no longer induces a mobility penalty, reduced radius

Alloy plating - reduced cost of the proving ground project, maybe make it cost 5 supplies instead of 1 alloy

Chameleon suit - no longer make it require a faceless corpse, make it provide a slight detection radius reduction and increase the infiltration reduction bonus. Alternatilvely, make it still require a faceless corpse but reduce the supply cost by a lot

Battlescanners - reduce cost and proving ground project time, increase the duration AP rounds - increase overall cost

Tactical vests - Increase armor and HP, decrease the cost

Hellweave Vest - make them block the meele attack once per turn in addition to the damage

Gas grenade - reduce the proving ground cost, significantly increase the mobility and aim penalties, remove some resistances from enemies (like lids) increase radius, Increase poison duration

EMP - increase damage and stun chance, introduce disorient chance

Smoke - increase radius, now the effect gives overall dr and 1 dr against explosives, bomb doubles that

Acid bomb - acid now disables passive abilities

Hazmat - remove the immunity to poison (reminder that medikits give it passively already)

Bluescreen rounds - give it a chance to disorient robotics

Tracer rounds - increase the bonus and cost

Flechette and stilleto - significantly increase the damage

Overdrive serum and refraction field - nerf their effects, give them corpse requiriments and make them no longer consumables,

Sustaining sphere - Make it much cheaper but keep it consumable

Nanomedikit - make it 2 charges but also require a viper corpse

[wortkarg]

Mind shields: ok, i was not aware of WotC specifics.

Shape charge. I see some usages with the current implementation, but it's rare cases. 1) Make a doorway to the mission objective (LoS to kill/destroy or a passage to get to the jail cells or get out). It heavily depends on the map and building structure. 2) Destroy cover to get LoS to an enemy. The range with adv. grenade launcher can be ok for this sometimes. It's like AoE Demolition, but with limited range and limited charges.

I would concentrate on the second point. +2 range will give an acceptable overall range with adv. grenade launcher (3 + 6 + 2 = 11) and 2 charges will be enough to waste a slot on it.

[Anxoczt]

I like all of these changes, especially the consumable changes, LW2 doesnt bring enough corpses, let alone Spectres and Berserkers so i dont really even bother with making these items. Flechette and Needle ammo buff is really appreciated, normally i just stick to using Viper or Dragon rounds since its bonus damage AND possible proc over a raw damage against specific enemies.

Hellweave working as damage blocker once per turn is also a great thing... i thought we cant have nice things in LWOTC in light of other... nerfs so this list of possible buffs surprised me in a good way.

[Grobobobo]

i thought we cant have nice things in LWOTC in light of other... nerfs

For some reason that pisses me off, Stop thinking in linear way, and start thinking about a global picture.

As for hellweave, I'm wondering about making it work closer to CCS or bladestorm than Combatives, but We'll see.