Argumentation

If we want to support mods like UHDAP through the masterlist, we need a reliable consent that is directly based on legal documents. The following is our current view on the situation, discussed on Discord in June 2020 (I've updated a few things before copy&pasting the discussion here, e.g. PlayStation's TOS which has slightly changed since then).

Current Situation

Let's summarize the situation and available information, and start at the place, where one can buy SSE for PlayStation: `https://store.playstation.com/en-us/product/UP1003-CUSA05333_00-SKYRIMHDFULLGAME` On that page, the description reads: > To play this game on PS5, your system may need to be updated to the latest system software. Although this game is playable on PS5, some features available on PS4 may be absent. See PlayStation.com/bc for more details. > > Online features require an account and are subject to terms of service and applicable privacy policy (playstationnetwork.com/terms-of-service & playstationnetwork.com/privacy-policy). > > Software subject to license (us.playstation.com/softwarelicense). > > One-time license fee for play on account’s designated primary PS4™ system and other PS4™ systems when signed in with that account. The SECOND sentence explains, that online features require an account and are subject to terms of service, and the linked page is: `playstationnetwork.com/terms-of-service` This url redirects the user to: `https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/legal/terms-of-service/` While I have seen this url working in the past (I linked to it in my original post, see down below), it has seemingly nowadays stopped working. Thumbs up Playstation. In any case, since it is stated, that these Terms of Service are connected to "Online Features", they doesn't seem to be applicable in the question, whether original PS4 SSE files can be ripped and transformed into PC mods or not. The important part is the url in the THIRD sentence: `us.playstation.com/softwarelicense` This url redirects the user to the following website, which holds the "softwarelicense": `https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/softwarelicense/` Quote: > Please read this entire Agreement, which governs your use of the Software. > (...) > This Agreement is between Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC (“SIE LLC”) and you. The Software publisher may be SIE or another company. If SIE is the Software publisher, this Agreement governs your use of the Software. If the Software publisher is another company, this Agreement governs your use of the Software and that other company may have an additional agreement that also governs your use of the Software. If there is a conflict between the terms of this Agreement and the terms of that other company’s agreement, the terms of this Agreement will prevail, including the arbitration and class waiver provisions in Section 6. If we are to assume, that the quoted paragraph of PlayStation's "softwarelicence" can be interpreted in such a way, that "another company" is "Bethesda" (or Bethesda's parent company: Microsoft) in this case, and as such that both the PlayStation's "softwarelicence" as well as some sort of license from Bethesda's apply simultaneously for us in this case, we would need to look for Bethesda's license agreement for SSE. Since I am not a lawyer, I cannot with certainty say, that the above assumption is correct - but for now, let's assume it is and continue our thought. The above quoted PlayStation Store page for SSE doesn't seem to link to a SSE specific license agreement from Bethesda. It only features this text: > The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim® Special Edition © 2016 Bethesda Softworks LLC, a ZeniMax Media company. The Elder Scrolls, Skyrim, Bethesda, Bethesda Game Studios, Bethesda Softworks, ZeniMax and related logos are registered trademarks or trademarks of ZeniMax Media Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. All Rights Reserved. https://bethesda.net/document/privacy-policy So the question is, which license agreement from Bethesda is applicable and can we be sure about that? And if we determine a Bethesda SSE license agreement to be applicable for our use case and it doesn't tell us that using PS4 SSE files is forbidden, does that mean, that ripping PS4 SSE files is good to go? I don't think so, because as also @Arthmoor has stated: > The logic is backward. If a license does not permit you to do something, then you have to assume you cannot do it. Bethesda's entry for Skyrim on Bethesda Net can be found here: `https://elderscrolls.bethesda.net/en/skyrim/` At the bottom, under "LEGAL", 3 links seem to be of interest for us: Terms of Service `https://bethesda.net/en/document/terms-of-service` End User License Agreements `https://bethesda.net/en/eulas` Legal Information `https://bethesda.net/en/document/legal-information` The page for "End User License Agreements" does not include an EULA for Skyrim, or Skyrim Special Edition. The page for "Legal Information" doesn't seem to be applicable for our case, too. Bethesda's "Terms of Service" on the other hand .. are they applicable for all users of their games, irrespectable of the plattform a game was bought for? > These Terms of Service (together with Supplemental Terms, defined below, " Terms of Service" or " Agreement") govern Your access to and Your purchase, receipt, and use of video games and other Services (defined in Section 1 below) that are provided or made available by ZeniMax Media Inc., on behalf of itself and its subsidiaries and affiliates (collectively, " ZeniMax"). @Arthmoor's response was: > That terms of service link for bethesda.net seems pretty clearly targeted toward the online activities like forums and such. I don't think it applies here. So I think in the end we're right back to where this all started. The CK EULA doesn't grant you a right to use assets from a platform other than a PC copy of the game. So the rips from the Sony files are off limits unless someone from Bethesda can confirm otherwise. I think that he is correct on those Terms of Service not applying in our case. Which leads me in my goal to find a Bethesda license agreement that could be applicable to the aforementioned SSE EULA, which is also linked on Steam's page for SSE, and the SSE CK EULA. SSE on Steam: `https://store.steampowered.com/app/489830/The_Elder_Scrolls_V_Skyrim_Special_Edition/` SSE EULA: `https://store.steampowered.com/eula/489830_eula_0` SSE CK EULA: `https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Tes5Mod:EULA` In case the SSE CK EULA would be applicable, one relevant part would be: > In addition, manufacturers of consoles, including without limitation Sony and Microsoft, may refuse to allow individuals to download or use certain Game Mods on the consoles that they manufacture or sell. Other than that, I don't see anything in that EULA to directly say that ripping PS4 files is forbidden. That being said, I agree that only because something isn't forbidden, it doesn't mean that it's legal. In case the SSE CK EULA isn't applicable, which could be the case because the EULA only applies if someone Downloads, Installs or Uses the CK - which doesn't seem to be necessary in order for ripping PS4 files - it would mean that "rippers" could ignore this particular EULA. Which, on the other hand, also DOES NOT mean that ripping get's to be classified as legal. It simply would mean, that in order to legalize ripping PS4 files, the user would need to continue looking for a license agreement that would help him in his ordeal, as his quest doesn't end here. When it comes to SSE's ("normal") EULA, it does contain the following: > LICENSE CONDITIONS. > > You agree not to: > (a) Commercially exploit the Software; > (b) Distribute, lease, license, sell, rent or otherwise transfer or assign this Software, or any copies of this Software, without > the express prior written consent of LICENSOR; > (c) Make copies of the Software or any part thereof, except for back up or archival purposes; > (d) Except as otherwise specifically provided by the Software or this Agreement, use or install the Software (or permit others to do same) on a network, for on-line use, or on more than one computer, computer terminal, console, or workstation at the same time; > (e) Copy the Software onto a hard drive or other storage device from the included DVD (although the Software may automatically copy a portion of itself onto your hard drive during installation in order to run more efficiently); > (f) Use or copy the Software at a computer gaming center or any other location-based site; > (g) Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble or modify the Software, in whole or in part; > (h) Remove or modify any proprietary notices or labels contained on or within the Software; and/or > (i) Transport, export or re-export (directly or indirectly) into any country forbidden to receive such Software by any U.S. export laws or accompanying regulations or otherwise violate such laws or regulations, that may be amended from time to time. While it features paragraphs like (g) that could be used to argue against modding itself as we know it, Bethesda clearly supports modding in general, as can be seen by their provision of the CK, featuring mods, recruiting modders into their own ranks, et cetera. As such, I don't see this EULA speaking against ripping PS4 files, but neither do I think that this circumstance legalizes ripping. ___ As my current conclusion, I think that yes, the mentioned PlayStation Terms of Service in my original post (see down below) is the wrong one, PlayStations "softwarelicense" should be the one to be looked at. This license tells us, that both the PlayStation's "softwarelicence" as well as some sort of license from Bethesda's apply simultaneously for us in this case; though IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and thus am unsure if I understand the license correctly. If we assume that besides PlayStations TOS one of Bethesda's licenses is also relevant, our best bet are the SSE EULA and SSE CK EULA. That being said, I don't see how either of them could be used to declare ripping PS4 files fair game. Even if the EULAs would state, that Bethesda doesn't have anything against the distribution of PS4 files to the PC (and vice versa), I'm still not convinced that this declaration would allow users do access the PlayStations hard drives and ripp contents through different means.

Original Post

[Modpage](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/18115) Plugins this mod contains: ``` UHDAP - MusicHQ.esp UHDAP - MusicUHQ1.esp UHDAP - MusicUHQ2.esp UHDAP - en0.esp UHDAP - en1.esp UHDAP - en2.esp UHDAP - en3.esp UHDAP - en4.esp UHDAP - de0.esp UHDAP - de1.esp UHDAP - de2.esp UHDAP - de3.esp UHDAP - de4.esp UHDAP - es0.esp UHDAP - es1.esp UHDAP - es2.esp UHDAP - es3.esp UHDAP - es4.esp UHDAP - fr0.esp UHDAP - fr1.esp UHDAP - fr2.esp UHDAP - fr3.esp UHDAP - fr4.esp UHDAP - it0.esp UHDAP - it1.esp UHDAP - it2.esp UHDAP - it3.esp UHDAP - it4.esp UHDAP - pl0.esp UHDAP - pl1.esp UHDAP - pl2.esp UHDAP - pl3.esp UHDAP - pl4.esp UHDAP - ru0.esp UHDAP - ru1.esp UHDAP - ru2.esp UHDAP - ru3.esp UHDAP - ru4.esp ``` LOOT's current masterlist data on this mod: ```yaml - name: 'UHDAP -.*\.esp' url: - link: 'https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/18115/' name: 'Unofficial High Definition Audio Project' group: *ccGroup - name: 'UHDAP - MusicHQ.esp' group: *ccGroup inc: - 'UHDAP - MusicUHQ1.esp' - 'UHDAP - MusicUHQ2.esp' ``` Quote from the modpage > Q: How did you do this/what was your workflow? A: Process is as follows: > > Rip PS4 game file audio. Extract audio to .xwm and .lip (actually PS4 .at9 at this stage) using Yakitori Audio Converter with xWMAencode deleted Convert .at9 to wav with VGAudio Apply -6.0dB volume adjustment with normalize (to match Stereo to Mono in-game) Duplicate mono into stereo channels with SoX (to allow >48kbit XWM encoding) Encode/pack .wav and .lip to .fuz with Yakitori (192kbit XWM) Split into <2GB chunks (manually...) Pack into .bsa with Archive.exe [PlayStation Terms of Service](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/network/legal/terms-of-service/) > Except as stated in this agreement, all content and software provided through PSN Services are licensed non-exclusively and revocably to you for your personal, private, non-transferable, non-commercial, limited use on a limited number of devices in the country in which your Account is registered. Also: > You may not sell, rent, lease, loan, sublicense, modify, adapt, arrange, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the Property. > > You may not reproduce or transfer any portion of the Property, or use the Property for purposes of resale, public performance, display, distribution or broadcast, except as stated in this agreement or as expressly permitted by us. > > You may not create any derivative works, attempt to create the source code from the object code, or download or use any Property for any purpose other than as expressly permitted. > > You may not bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, digital rights management or authentication mechanism in connection with PSN Services, or any of the content or services offered through PSN Services. ___ UHDAP decompiles, modifies and distributes PS4 files, for people that do not own the PS4 version of the game. This is directly against the PlayStation Terms of Service, which all PS4 users must agree to. In theory, this might be revised by official statements by Sony and/or Bethesda. However, as long as we do not have such statements, we must follow what is considered to be legal. If it is not considered legal, we can't support it. As such, we should remove support for UHDAP. In case the mod author would obtain *proof of written permission* from the involved parties, I think we could add the relevant data back into our masterlist once again. Until that day, removing the data is our only choice.

Overall conclusion:

We currently will not support UHDAP through our masterlist. This position could only change, if we have a proof, that both Bethesda's and PlayStation's legal departments are okay with ripping PS4 files in order to make PC mods out of those files. If that doesn't happen, we cannot support the mod through the masterlist.

loot / skyrimse

Remove "Unofficial High Definition Audio Project" #785

Argumentation

Overall conclusion: