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loup99 / WtWSMS

A Migrational Era Mod for CK2
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/when-the-world-stopped-making-sense-mod.876/
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Minor character and title history fixes #407

Closed Symmachus closed 5 years ago

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

This is my minor character fixes. I'am new in Github, so this can contain some errors. I probably will make more character fixes lately.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

Great! As long as you can provide detailed justifications and sources for all changes, it doesn't pose any problems. However you broke the encoding in the files you edited, so that will have to be resolved. You should absolutely not transcode anything, and not edit via GitHub. Desktop is the only method of editing which is usable for CK2 modding.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I already told you about Salonia Matidia issue in forum. Mostly of ErikW characters were taken from Geni. So, my source in this question is Geni. And previous mother was only for 2 years older than daughter. Empress Aelia Eudocia had a wrong spouse added. Her previous husband was Flavius Bauto! I fixed this. Quintus Aurelius Memmius Symmachus's claims on Papacy were strange. He never claimed on Papacy. Probably he was confused with Pope Symmachus. Last child of Anastasia Constantina and Pompeius was born in 475. Pompeius's death date was 470, i made 475. Claudius Iulius Eclesius Dynamius hold Roman Prefecture until 502. His previous death date was 500, i made 505. I connected Boethius with his children and made unused dynasty for him and his father. I've made for Tatianus and Iulius dynasty name of their mother and grandfather. Sidamic dynasty was really broken, characters were born many years after father's death. Same issue with one abasgian ruler.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

Tell us when you finish adding new fixes, it will be easier to review then. EDIT: Closed unintentionally.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I'am currently in thought how to properly fix early Ghassanid genealogy. Many rulers didn't connected with each others because parent and child were in same age.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

Why does it say I removed @IhateTrains comments? I removed my own, since it was outdated...

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

You removed the first comment on CoA, so it removed my comments too. What is outdated?

loup99 commented 5 years ago

Oh sorry, I didn't click on yours. Your comments made mine outdated.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

How? Aren't comments made outdated only by file changes?

loup99 commented 5 years ago

You added new information, which I didn't have when commentiog?

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

Yes, but my comments were still valid. Instead of outright removal of the CoA block as proposed in the PR, we can look for the indended CoA in other files.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

Yes, but my comments were still valid, Instead of outright removal of the CoA block as proposed in the PR, we can look for the indended CoA in other files.

Your comments was why I removed my comment.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I'am currently fixing Quraishite tree. One question : should i change religion of late characters which is sunni ( for example Fatimah ) to islamic?

loup99 commented 5 years ago

I'am currently fixing Quraishite tree. One question : should i change religion of late characters which is sunni ( for example Fatimah ) to islamic?

How late? Because we are not adding any start dates after 800, so no characters after that date. After the Sunni/Shia split they should have those religions.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I mean 7th and 8th century arab characters. Ok, after this i will fix some others and after this you integrate my fixes as well.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

I mean 7th and 8th century arab characters. Ok, after this i will fix some others and after this you integrate this as well.

Post-split they should be Sunni/Shia, pre-split Islamic.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

Сould you remind me what year the split occurred?

loup99 commented 5 years ago

Сould you remind me what year the split occurred?

In 632 a party was constituted around Ali after Muhammad died, who himself was assassinated in 661. 632 should be retained for us.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

Ok, what about Abbas, Abbasids and some other Muhammad's relatives? In vanilla they have Sayyid trait, but they are not descends from Muhammad. Should i give him that trait?

loup99 commented 5 years ago

Ok, what about Abbas and Abbasids? He is Muhammad's uncle and in vanilla he has Sayyid trait. Shoud i give him that trait?

I would say yes.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

Oh, its soo difficult... My work probably can contain errors. I made Sayyd trait for characters after Muhammad's birth.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I think most of my work is done. You can integrate this now. Quraishite genealogy was fixed intuitive because i know little about them.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

I think most of my work is done. You can integrate this now. Quraishite genealogy was fixed intuitive because i know little about them.

Could you resolve the conflicts with master and update the ChangeLog with your changes before we review them?

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

Since i updated ChangelLog, now everytime after your commits there are conflicts with base branch.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

Don't worry, even if there are conflicts caused by additions in master, the review can be done.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

Tell us about the latest review comments when you have time, so that we can merge this! 😃

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I've made few screenshots for our conversation about using dynasty names. -Tatianus and Iulius before: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980954 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980687 and after: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680983306 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680983620 Tatianus and Iulius will get different dynasties after update, better to gave him one dynasty, even matrilineal. -Boethius without dynasty, before my changes: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980203 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980505 Both Manlius Boethius and Anicius doen't have dynasty, after game start Manlius will get dynasty, but Anicius not, so he can't integrate father's titles.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

Both Manlius Boethius and Anicius doen't have dynasty, after game start Manlius will get dynasty, but Anicius not, so he can't integrate father's titles.

Anicius not inheriting the titles isn't really a problem, vassal titles under Roman Empire shouldn't even be hereditary.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I posted this for a evidence. If father gets dynasty and his son or another relative still lowborn without dynasty, its issue IMO. So, i think better is give matrilineal dynasty for Tatianus and Iulius and if possible give a dynasty to all characters with the family

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

About other issues: -Iulius Agrius Tarrutenius Marcianus: since this character was added, i was interested of his similar names with Tarrutenius Maximilianus and another Tarrutenii. @IhateTrains, when you worked on EBS, you identified ErikW Tarrutenius Maximilanus with PLRE Tarrutenius Maximilianus 3. I checked this in PLRE and in both articles was said that Iulius Agrius Tarrutenius Marcianus is possible son of Tarrutenius Maximilianus 3. -Auchenius Bassus - look into b_anicius and b_terracina for a reason.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

On Tarrutenius Marcianus:

  1. It's still just a possible relation.
  2. As @loup99 noticed, you haven't added the father entry.
Symmachus commented 5 years ago

Now fine? I had seen this and fixed. It was really stupid confuse :confused:

loup99 commented 5 years ago

I've made few screenshots for our conversation about using dynasty names. -Tatianus and Iulius before: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980954 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980687 and after: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680983306 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680983620 Tatianus and Iulius will get different dynasties after update, better to gave him one dynasty, even matrilineal. -Boethius without dynasty, before my changes: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980203 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1680980505 Both Manlius Boethius and Anicius doen't have dynasty, after game start Manlius will get dynasty, but Anicius not, so he can't integrate father's titles.

Since the mod has to take ground in the historical reality, this is inaccurate. Matrilineal dynasties were not a thing, so it does not work in terms of historicity, and creates balance problems too (characters get dynasty relations they shouldn't have).

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

@Symmachus Yes, that particular issue is fixed.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

On the matrilineal dynasty problem, can't we just create a dynasty for them and their father? Would make more sense IMO.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

On the matrilineal dynasty problem, can't we just create a dynasty for them and their father? Would make more sense IMO.

I prefer this as well.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

In Erikw characters some dynasties are continue through matrilineal path. For example, marriage of Lucius Septimius Severus and Pomponia Bassa, marriage of Cassia Lepida and Alexander Berenicianus etc - their children get mother's dynasty.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

In Erikw characters some dynasties are continue through matrilineal path. For example, marriage of Lucius Septimius Severus and Pomponia Bassa, marriage of Cassia Lepida and Alexander Berenicianus etc - their children get mother's dynasty.

Now that we have bloodlines these can actually be fixed.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

On the matrilineal dynasty problem, can't we just create a dynasty for them and their father? Would make more sense IMO.

That is not needed, i'll just delete this dynasty for Tatianus and Iulius. All this hype was because they are had unique possibility to get dynasty of their mother.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

What now? I think all conflicts is resolved and this can be merged.

loup99 commented 5 years ago

What now? I think all conflicts is resolved and this can be merged.

There is still the confusion around the consul numbers @IhateTrains was concerned about. I also found some additional things to comment upon based upon later changes that weren't present previously.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

There is still the confusion around the consul numbers @IhateTrains was concerned about. I also found some additional things to comment upon based upon later changes that weren't present previously.

You should view b_anicius and b_terracina for a cause. I concerned about if i preserve old numbers, 1006011 will be confused with 1006010 and 1001016 will be confused with 1006011.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

It seems that my suggested change breaks the encoding in that file when committed automatically, it probably has to be done manually.

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

It seems that my suggested change breaks the encoding in that file when committed automatically, it probably has to be done manually.

Now this is fixed.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

@Symmachus I've reviewed the new dynasties for Romano-Gauls. Have the arabic & muslim changes been reviewed?

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

@Symmachus I've reviewed the new dynasties for Romano-Gauls. Have the arabic & muslim changes been reviewed?

Yes, this is fine. Only problem, which confuse me is Abd Allah, Abu Bakr's brother made by Enlil. He is just not documented by any source.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

I have found only two characters named "Abd Allah" in the master branch and neither of them has brothers. What is the ID of your character?

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

I have found only two characters named "Abd Allah" in the master branch and neither of them has brothers. What is the ID of your character?

This Abd Allah - son of Enlil's version of Umar character (Abu Bakr's father). I deleted Umar's duplicate from vanilla and after this Abd Allah become brother of Abu Bakr.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

But Abu Bakr's father is Uthman, not Umar (see 163014 for Abu Bakr and 163013 for Uthman). Are we talking about the same Abu Bakr? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr

Symmachus commented 5 years ago

But Abu Bakr's father is Uthman, not Umar (see 163014 for Abu Bakr and 163013 for Uthman). Are we talking about the same Abu Bakr? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr

Yes, of course i mean Uthman.

IhateTrains commented 5 years ago

So the 36465 'Uthman is the Enlil version (duplicate) of 163013 vanilla Uthman? Are you sure?