Game doesn't let some spells enter the stack despite having mana to cast them

[Zerrisx]

This is a thread for any spells that you are unable to cast despite having the mana to pay for them. Most of these will likely be spells with cost reductions where you can afford the reduced version but not the full version, or where your mana sources are somehow weird (conditional moxen, Channel, spirit guides, creatures that generate variable amounts of mana, etc).

If you're reporting a card with this kind of issue, please include a screenshot of the battlefield if possible - if not, list the spell you were trying to cast along with all the available mana sources you were trying to use to cast it.

See also: related issue #6684 for extended discussion. Old issue: #5150

Currently, the following have been reported:

Still Bugged:

Bugged Combos:

All of these will be very hard to calculate due the dynamic mana ability side effects or conditional combinations going on, and should probably remove hard stops if in play.

• [ ] Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Chromatic Spheres - can't cast Reality Smasher with Kydele and three or more Chromatic Spheres in play. You should be able to, since you can put it on the stack, then activate the spheres' abilities as mana abilities while also drawing cards to enable Kydele.

• [ ] Pili-Pala + Paradise Mantle - can't cast Goblin Chainwhirler off a Pili-Pala equipped with Paradise Mantle and two Islands. You should be able to tap + untap + tap to get RRR, all of which are mana abilities.

• [ ] Skirge Familiar + Chromatic Spheres - can't cast Grave Titan off Skirge Familiar with five other cards in hand and a Chromatic Sphere in play. You should be able to, since you can put it on the stack, then activate the sphere's ability as a mana ability while also drawing a card to enable Skirge.

• [ ] Treasonous Ogre + Pristine Talismans - can't cast Inferno Titan off an Ogre and two Pristine Talismans with 11 life. You should be able to, since you can put it on the stack, then activate the Talismans as mana abilities while also gaining life to enable the Ogre.

• [ ] K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth + Pristine Talismans - same issue as Treasonous Ogre + Pristine Talismans.

• [ ] Titans' Nest + Skirge Familiar (+ Chromatic Spheres) - extension of the Skirge Familiar issue; you can discard an indeterminate number of cards as part of paying mana costs, then delve them away.

Fixed:

• [x] Accursed Witch - can't cast spells that can target it if you can only afford the discounted version, i.e. can't cast Dismember with no mana sources, and can't cast Heartless Act with only a swamp in play

• [x] Accursed Witch (Infectious Curse) - can't cast spells that can target the enchanted opponent if you can only afford the discounted version, i.e. can't cast Agonizing Remorse with only a swamp in play

• [x] Ashnod's Altar - doesn't get counted as a mana source to determine if a spell is castable (which is bad, because the sacrifices will often trigger effects and give opponents priority, so the strategically correct play is putting the spell on the stack first)

• [x] Battlefield Thaumaturge - doesn't let you cast spells with multiple targets unless you could afford their full cost, i.e. Hex when you have six creatures and two swamps.

• [x] Benthic Explorers aren't considered for being able to cast a spell, even though they are a mana ability.

• [x] Birchlore Rangers - unable to cast Steel Leaf Champion with six untapped elves

• [x] Black Mana Battery (and probably also Red/Green/White/Blue Mana Battery) - can't cast Erebos's Titan with two swamps and a Black Mana Battery with one charge counter on it. (Note that you'll need Coretapper or similar to add the counter, due to #6787)

• [x] Bubbling Muck - unable to cast Erebos's Titan off two swamps after casting Bubbling Muck

• [x] Cadaverous Bloom - unable to cast Erebos's Titan with no lands in play. Looks like Bloom only gets counted as if you could activate it once, not multiple times.

• [x] Caged Sun - unable to cast Erebos's Titan off two swamps and a Caged Sun on black

• [x] Calciform Pools (and likely all of the storage lands / artifacts) - unable to cast Icefall Regent off two Islands and a Calciform Pools with at least three counters on it

• [x] Chrome Mox - cannot cast spells if one is untapped (reported in discord)

• [x] Cloud Key - unable to cast TKS with two keys and two wastes

• [x] Coal Golem - unable to cast Goblin Chainwhirler with a Coal Golem and three non-red mana floating

• [x] Conduit of Ruin - can't cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn with 13 mana available #6869

• [x] Crucible of the Spirit Dragon - unable to cast Niv-Mizzet, Parun off a Crucible with six counters on it

• [x] Cryptic Trilobite - unable to cast Niv-Mizzet Reborn off a Trilobite with two counters, a wastes, and a Cascading Cataracts

• [x] Crystalline Crawler - can't cast Gigantosaurus off a forest and a Crawler with four counters on it

• [x] Dawn's Reflection - unable to cast Thought Erasure off a plains enchanted with Dawn's Reflection

• [x] Daybreak Chimera - can't cast with two plains and three devotion to white

• [x] Diamond Kaleidoscope - can't cast Divination with a Kaleidoscope and three Prism tokens

• [x] Doubling Cube - doesn't seem to work right if the mana isn't already in your pool; can't cast Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger off eight untapped forests and a Doubling Cube

• [x] Drag to the Underworld - can't cast with two swamps and two devotion to black

• [x] Dream Halls - per Kactuus in Discord, only lets you cast the card for free if you could have paid for it normally.

• [x] Dromar's Attendant - if you play Coal Golem and then Dromar's Attendant with an untapped land or floating mana, you can't cast Esper Charm or Goblin Chainwhirler. (If you do it in the other order you can, so something's very weird here)

Coal Golem First:

Dromar First:

• [x] Druid's Repository - can't cast Esper Charm when Repository has three counters

• [x] Earwig Squad - can't be cast with prowl alongside a cost reducing Goblin Warchief with two swamps in play

• [x] Elderwood Scion - can't cast Bake into a Pie targeting it with two swamps

• [x] Elvish Guidance - unable to cast Ravenous Baloth off an island enchanted with Elvish Guidance with three elves in play

• [x] Emrakul, the Promised End - can't cast with seven card types in the yard and six Islands in play (from hand or command zone)

• [x] Extraplanar Lens - unable to cast Jace, Wielder of Mysteries with two islands and a Lens with an imprinted island

• [x] Eye of Ramos - unable to cast Jace, Wielder of Mysteries with two Eye of Ramos in play

• [x] Farrelite Priest - unable to cast Archangel of Tithes with a Priest and four swamps

• [x] Fertile Ground - can't cast Gruul Spellbreaker off two forests, one enchanted with Fertile Ground.

• [x] Fervent Champion - unable to attach Sword of Fire and Ice for free unless you could pay two mana #6843

• [x] Gauntlet of Might - can't cast an Inferno Titan with three mountains and a Gauntlet

• [x] Gauntlet of Power - can't cast an Inferno Titan with three mountains and a Gauntlet set to red

• [x] Gemstone Array - unable to cast Inferno Titan with an Array with six counters

• [x] Ghostfire Blade - can't equip to an Ornithopter with just an island in play

• [x] Grand Architect - can't cast Grimoire of the Dead with an Architect and another blue creature

• [x] Harvest Mage - can't cast anything if Harvest Mage has been activated

• [x] Heritage Druid - can't cast a Primeval Titan off a Heritage Druid and five other elves

• [x] High Tide - can't cast Frost Titan off three islands with a High Tide effect active

• [x] Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis - can't pay convoke #6680

• [x] Hour of Revelation - can't cast off three plains and ten ornithopters

• [x] Iceberg - can't cast Karn, the Great Creator off an Iceberg with 4+ counters on it

• [x] Initiates of the Ebon Hand - unable to cast Erebos's Titan with an Initiate and four islands

• [x] Inspiring Statuary - doesn't let you cast a 5B spell with five artifacts and a swamp

• [x] Jungle Patrol - unable to cast Goblin Chainwhirler with three wood tokens

• [x] Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer - you can cast a morph with no lands in play from your hand... but not from the command zone.

• [x] Kaleidostone - can't cast any spells if it is untapped with less than five other available mana (and thus also can't be activated). Reported by SpikesCafe-google in this thread, verified by me.

• [x] K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth - can't use ability unless you could have paid the full cost #6696

• [x] Kykar, Wind's Fury - can't cast Shivan Dragon with Kykar and six spirits

• [x] Llanowar Envoy - can't cast Goblin Chainwhirler with six forests and an envoy

• [x] Loam Dryad - can't cast Lightning Bolt off a Dryad and another creature

• [x] Mana Cache - can't cast Reality Smasher off a cache with five counters controlled by your opponent

• [x] Maywyn, the Nurturer - can't cast Morphon off a Marwyn with 6+ counters on her

• [x] Morselhoarder - can't cast Crackling Drake off two Morselhoarders with -1/-1 counters on them

• [x] Mox Amber - cannot cast spells if one is untapped (reported in discord)

• [x] Mystical Dispute - can't cast off one blue mana #6684

• [x] Not of this World #6684

• [x] Of One Mind - unable to cast without 3 untapped lands #6685

• [x] Patron (of the Akki, etc) - all Offering spells cannot be cast without mana for full spell being available.

• [x] Pentad Prism - can't cast Kestia, the Cultivator off two lands and a Pentad Prism with two counters

• [x] Phyrexian Altar - can't cast Divination off an Altar and three creatures

• [x] Price of Fame - cannot cast if Mana open is less than 4 #6685

• [x] Priest of Yawgmoth - can't Grave Titan off a Priest and an Ur-Golem's Eye

• [x] Rasputin Dreamweaver - can't cast Accomplished Automaton off a Rasputin with seven counters

• [x] Sasaya's Essence - can't cast Craterhoof Behemoth off three forests

• [x] Savage Stomp #6684

• [x] Selvala, Explorer Returned - you should be able to cast spells that require up to G per player in the game from Selvala, but you can't cast a 1GG spell off a forest and Selvala in a two person game

• [x] Seton, Krosan Protector - only seems to get counted as if it were one mana for determining if a spell can be cast, regardless of how many druids you have in play

• [x] Simian / Elvish Spirit Guide - don't get counted to determine if a spell is castable (although you can still exile them ahead of time, this could be a problem if you had a creature like Aeon Chronicler that died as a result of the change in handsize, triggering other effects and losing priority before being able to cast your spell)

• [x] Skirk Prospector - can't cast Jaya Ballard off a Prospector and four other Goblins

• [x] Skirge Familiar - can't cast Grave Titan off a Skirge Familiar and at least six other cards in hand

• [x] Soldevi Adnate - can't cast Erebos's Titan off an Adnate and a Solemn Simulacrum

• [x] Spellwild Ouphe - can't cast Barbed Lightning targeting it with a mountain

• [x] Squandered Resources - can't cast Erebos's Titan off a Squandered Resources and two Swamps

• [x] Tasigur, the Golden Fang - can't pay delve to cast from command zone (Hateful-Little-Bear; this thread)

• [x] Tentative Connection - can't cast off a mountain with a Shatterskull Recruit in play

• [x] Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge - can't cast a 5B spell with five artifacts and a swamp

• [x] Thermopod - can't cast Inferno Titan off a Thermopod and five Ornithopters

• [x] Titanic Brawl - can't cast off one forest targeting a Scrounging Bandar and an Ornithopter

• [x] Titans' Nest - can't cast a Frost Titan with a Titans' Nest, four cards in the graveyard, and two Islands

• [x] Torgaar, Famine Incarnate - can't cast with two swamps and three creatures

• [x] Transcendent Envoy (and other aura discounts) don't let you cast bestow creatures if you can't afford the full bestow or casting cost

• [x] Treasonous Ogre - can't cast Inferno Titan off an Ogre with 19+ health

• [x] Utopia Mycon - can't cast Griselbrand off a Utopia Mycon and 8+ Saprolings

• [x] Viridian Joiner - can't cast Nissa, Who Shakes the World off a Viridian Joiner with five power

• [x] Warbringer - doesn't let you cast creatures with Dash if you can't afford the full dash or casting cost

• [x] Wizard's Lighting #6685

• [x] Workhorse - can't cast Thought-Knot Seer off a Workshorse with four counters

[Hateful-Little-Bear]

Having this problem with Tasigur, the Golden Fang. I can't attempt to use delve to cast him from command zone.

[LevelX2]

I would close all the duplicate tickets (as done with #6696).

Or should we let them open until the related problem is resolved? But because the needed changes are probably more general it's unneccessary work.

[JayDi85]

@LevelX2 no needs to close original issues -- it's contains additional info and users can find it by default search until real fix (github searches in active issues by default). Just add related links to that post or wait Zerrisx (he can collect and update that list too). When you fix card then close all related issues from that post too.

My logic: if I can find active issues with card name/ability then problem isn't fixed yet in xmage. Single tasks are much easier to find than shared lists. As example: feedback topics -- I need to open every founded feedback list to find is it fixed or not:

[Zerrisx]

Should we also report cases of cards thinking they can be cast when they can't? Some of them might have good reason, but they could also be indicative of issues.

For example, Willbender thinks it can be cast at all times - including during my opponent's turn with no mana sources available.

[JayDi85]

Yes, report it too. Also you can report some potential bugged cards or combo that need to check. Just mark it as possibly bugged.

[serokellcao]

Wizard's Lightning doesn't work with Githu Lavarunner, but works with Burning Prophet.

Happened in one game, but not in another! Undefined behaviour is sad :(

[Zerrisx]

Wizard's Lightning doesn't work with Githu Lavarunner, but works with Burning Prophet.

Happened in one game, but not in another! Undefined behaviour is sad :(

Weird - both cards worked with the discount for me; was able to cast Wizard's Lightning with just one mountain and either one in play.

[Terminus42]

First off sorry for not having a screenshot showing the exact game state.

Trying to cast Expansion // Explosion's Expansion part with two floating blue mana and without untapped lands consistently produces an issue for me. The spell doesn't begin casting, quite possibly because the game calculates the required amount of floating mana incorrectly.

[LevelX2]

K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth problem seems to be fixed, can't reproduce the problem.

Same for Torgaar, Famine Incarnate .

[Zerrisx]

K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth problem seems to be fixed, can't reproduce the problem.

Same for Torgaar, Famine Incarnate .

Torgaar appears to be fixed.

K'rrik, however, seems reproducible enough to me testing after the latest commit:

[SpikesCafe-google]

I think this is probably related. Kaleidostone makes it think I can't cast any of the spells in my hand. If I tap the mana before casting the spell, it lets me cast them. If I have 5 lands untapped and could activate Kaleidostone, it also lets me cast them. On 1.4.44V0-beta17.

[Zerrisx]

First off sorry for not having a screenshot showing the exact game state.

Trying to cast Expansion // Explosion's Expansion part with two floating blue mana and without untapped lands consistently produces an issue for me. The spell doesn't begin casting, quite possibly because the game calculates the required amount of floating mana incorrectly.

Can't reproduce this one.

I think this is probably related. Kaleidostone makes it think I can't cast any of the spells in my hand. If I tap the mana before casting the spell, it lets me cast them. If I have 5 lands untapped and could activate Kaleidostone, it also lets me cast them. On 1.4.44V0-beta17.

Yep, this one I can; adding to the list.

[LevelX2]

The problem does also exist for all spells with the " offering" keyword. Card can only be cast if all mana is available in the normal way.

[Zerrisx]

The problem does also exist for all spells with the " offering" keyword. Card can only be cast if all mana is available in the normal way.

I swear I added that, but I think it got wiped out by somebody else's edit. Adding it again.

[Zerrisx]

Major categories that seem to have issues right now: Storage Lands/artifacts (fixed by 7ad7d5f), Mana Doublers (fixed by 8924988), Permanents that can tap other permanents to add mana like Birchlore Rangers (fixed by 81e5650), and cards that can remove counters or sacrifice permanents to add mana.

[LevelX2]

* Deathrite Shaman - unable to cast Faithless Looting off a Deathrite Shaman with a plains in my graveyard

That ability is no mana ability (because of the target). So it would mean to scan all abilities (instead of now only mana abilities) during calculation of available mana calculation. Don't know if we should do that.

[Zerrisx]

* Deathrite Shaman - unable to cast Faithless Looting off a Deathrite Shaman with a plains in my graveyard

That ability is no mana ability (because of the target). So it would mean to scan all abilities (instead of now only mana abilities) during calculation of available mana calculation. Don't know if we should do that.

Oh right, I always forget that one's not a mana ability. Removing from the list.

[Zerrisx]

Finished going through all the mana abilities in my searches; added all the new ones I found to the list.

[acabaca24]

Yesterday my opponent couldn't activate his Rishadan Port in my upkeep when he was given priority. His untapped lands were Rishadan Port and Thespian Stage, I'm pretty sure this is related to this issue, that's why I didn't open a new one. Hopefully I'm right.

[Zerrisx]

Yesterday my opponent couldn't activate his Rishadan Port in my upkeep when he was given priority. His untapped lands were Rishadan Port and Thespian Stage, I'm pretty sure this is related to this issue, that's why I didn't open a new one. Hopefully I'm right.

It could be, but I'd be a little surprised - most of these issues are due to bad cost-reduction or mana adding calculations, and Rishadan Port / Thespian's Stage don't have any of that. I'd suggest writing it up separately.

[acabaca24]

Yesterday my opponent couldn't activate his Rishadan Port in my upkeep when he was given priority. His untapped lands were Rishadan Port and Thespian Stage, I'm pretty sure this is related to this issue, that's why I didn't open a new one. Hopefully I'm right.

It could be, but I'd be a little surprised - most of these issues are due to bad cost-reduction or mana adding calculations, and Rishadan Port / Thespian's Stage don't have any of that. I'd suggest writing it up separately.

Okay, I'll be doing that!

[Zerrisx]

I separated out the individual calculation card bugs from the combo bugs - most of the combos will be too complicated to reasonably calculate, so we should probably consider the cards involved as blank checks for the purposes of hard stops. i.e. if you have Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix in play, you are considered to have infinite {C} mana. Same for Treasonous Ogre and {R}, Skirge Familiar and {B}, Titan's Nest and {C} for colored non-X spells, and Pili-Pala for... I guess all colors of mana? Pili-Pala calculations are a mess.

Short version is: tapped permanents, cards in any zone, and life are all common side effects of mana abilities and could have any number of additional replacement effects affecting them, so other mana abilities that are conditional on those traits produce indeterminate amounts of mana.

[LevelX2]

* Selvala, Explorer Returned - you should be able to cast spells that require up to G per player in the game from Selvala, but you can't cast a 1GG spell off a forest and Selvala in a two person game

Seems to work ok for me. You don't know if non land cards are revealed.

[Zerrisx]

* Selvala, Explorer Returned - you should be able to cast spells that require up to G per player in the game from Selvala, but you can't cast a 1GG spell off a forest and Selvala in a two person game

Seems to work ok for me. You don't know if non land cards are revealed.

So, Selvala, Explorer Returned is... weird. Specifically, you can put a spell (say, Channel) on the stack and declare that you intend to pay for it by tapping Selvala and revealing two creatures, one from each player's library, as a mana ability. You can do this even if you don't know that there's a creature on top of each deck. You can do it even if you explicitly do know that one of the two decks doesn't have a creature on top.

However, if you do this and as a result can't pay for the spell, the entire cast is undone (except the card draw, though that's not relevant to my point here). See this ruling on Selvala:

5/29/2014: If you activate Selvala’s ability while casting a spell, and you discover you can’t produce enough mana to pay that spell’s costs, the spell is reversed. The spell returns to whatever zone you were casting it from. You may reverse other mana abilities you activated while casting the spell, but Selvala’s ability can’t be reversed. Whatever mana that ability produced will be in your mana pool and each player will have drawn a card.

When does it matter that you can do this with the spell on the stack instead of before casting it?

For one, because of Panglacial Wurm, everybody's favorite rule-breaking card.

Example: if you have Panglacial Wurm on top of your library and five forests plus an evolving wilds in play, you can crack a fetchland, start searching your library, put Panglacial Wurm on the stack, then cast it by revealing the card below Panglacial Wurm and the top of your opponent's library. Since activating Selvala beforehand would result in drawing the Wurm, blind-activating like this is the only way to get the extra value off Panglacial Wurm, and MTG lets you do it. If your opponent doesn't have the creature you needed, whoops, let's just pretend you never did that.

Currently, XMage does not allow this blind activation.