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mangos / MaNGOS

This is the master Information repository for MaNGOS
http://getmangos.eu
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Open discussion about Mangos and Cmangos projects #121

Closed xfurry closed 10 years ago

xfurry commented 11 years ago

Hi everyone,

I want to address a few questions and fact in this topic, since github is public to everyone, not only to the users of getmangos.com or other forums

First I want to say that this is mainly addressed to @Salja (and @TheLuda if he's still around) the actual administrator of the so called "mangos foundation". I'd like to discuss this openly, no swears or personal injuries. Also I'm not here to discuss legal issues (the ones posted here: https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2013-02-05-MaNGOs.markdown ) regarding our projects. This is something which lawyers can handle.

First, I understood by reading your forum, that cMangos is bad, probably the worst thing in the universe at this moment. And because of this, cMangos must be boycotted, closed, banned and it's developers burned alive in public.

Considering this, then why did you just copy paste all our commits into the mangos repositories? I know that the open source policy allows it, and I'm not complaining about this, but I'm complaining about the morality of this thing. Why don't you just wipe all the cMangos commits, from every repository, every hard drive and just start from https://github.com/mangostwo/server/commit/493dfc2ea08bf315dfe67358d330ca9fb2d09587 and do the research and code writing by yourself? If cMangos is it that bad, why did you copy paste our commits? Wouldn't this be called a "plagiarism"? If cMangos project was taken down, shouldn't you do the same with all the commits that belonged to cMangos? Don't you think that you will also violate the so called "copyrights" if you just take our commits and then put your copyright headers on the files to which you had no contribution at all in the past 6 months? If you really think that cMangos was blocking you way to evolve, to be "the best of the best", then you should know that the are many other projects which are far more evolved and popular than your current mangos, and virtually almost nobody cares what happens to the your "mangos foundation". Mangos has no more than 1% "market share" compared to TrinityCore and Skyfire. Finally don't you realize that all the fellow projects (scripts and database) won't support your core anymore? Don't you realize that the mangos core is virtually a piece of dead code without database and scripts?

As a conclusion: if you really want cMangos banned, then so be it. But then you will have to drop all our commit from your repositories and restore them to the original commit, before cMangos was born. After this the mangos project can progress (or maybe rest) in peace.

Thanks in advance,

Xfurry

PS. If you really have balls in you pants, you will answer to this topic, like a man, and not just delete it and run away crying like a baby. ;)

Salja commented 11 years ago

GPL2 states that when you publish under the GPL the MaNGOS Code is open source, i can merge all what is pushed from CMaNGOS as CmANGOS is only a fork of MaNGOS. Removing the original copyright is illegal (Trinity still has the Mangos Copyright in their code)

Salja commented 11 years ago

All we are after is that the original copyright acknowledgements are restored and the personal attacks on Mangos Members stop

KiriX commented 11 years ago

Delete, abuse, banned cMaNGOS is like child... But also I can't understand CMaNGOS team - why you delete all copyrights which point to mangos from CMaNGOS code??? In any case - CMaNGOS is fork from mangos and I think that cmangos dev team should not delete all copyrights...

xfurry commented 11 years ago

Do you have a copyright document submitted here http://www.copyright.gov/forms/ ? Do you have legal papers for the so called "mangos foundation"? Does the "mangos foundation" pay taxes, to the state for it's activities, so that it can claim copyright?

If you do, then we'll put the copyrights back. Otherwise, everyone would put a "copyright" on anything and cliam that he owns that, without any legal paper...

xfurry commented 11 years ago

PS. Every company which claims copyright on a software or music or movies, does really exist on legal papers, and pays all the taxes for the money that they get. They also submit balance sheets to the state, once a year to prove that their activity isn't illegal.

Blizzard is not a fictional foundation which put a copyright line on a game that they developed. Sony isn't a fictional company which claims copyright for all the music that they produce And the examples can continue...

You must know that even donations can be taxed in certain conditions. (I think that someone who knows better accounting can help at this point).

ghost commented 11 years ago

1st) everyone has submitted code, and the code has always been signed to the mangos project or foundation. You can not change that. Leaving the project and forking it, still means you have to keep the original copyrights. 2nd) the mangos foundation actually was registered a few years ago, and still is, and I am the one paying the bills for mangos for almost 8 years now. There is a real, legal organisation, although we are exempted from taxes, since the foundation does not have any income, or follows any business purpose, except to benefit newly developers studying. Also, I submit regular tax sheets every year, but there usually is nothing going, because donations are hardly there except for a sum below $50 or even $0 over a year.

But besides that, the point here is just plain simple: Some people left mangos, and that is perfectly fine. But if you leave a project, you have no right to claim the copyright. Just like MariaDB is a fork which kept the original copyright from MySQL in their source, anyone forking mangos is simply obliged to keep the copyright.

E.g. the original mangos core contains code by me, which I licensed under GPL v2 to the mangos project. Did you ask my permission to re-licence that for cmangos? Nope.

I am sorry, but you can have cmangos, and do what you want, but you have to follow the license terms, and that is not up for discussion. The GPL is a valid license, and I can not see any value in cmangos, if the fork - which it is - does not intend to respect even a simple license.

For me, I don't care. I am just paying the bills, and hand out advice and data in the background to ever developer.

xfurry commented 11 years ago

@TheLuda This answers my questions. We'll proceed in fixing the copyrights as soon as possible. Thank you

ghost commented 11 years ago

@xfurry: perfectly fine with me, I honestly wish you good look with cmangos, no bad feelings from my side.

Schmoozerd commented 11 years ago

About legal matters. I stated my opinion about these weeks ago in the relevant discussion. Nobody had anything to say about my arguments. I won't waste my time to repeat myself however.

@theLuda I know you are unable to read, but there never was any illigal re-licensing done by our side. The code is still GPLv2 as it should and must be. Besides you should not overestimate your own contribution, from my history the last none-trivial commit done by yourself was in 2008. So all you have any "moral" rights to claim is something like readding a "copyright-line" up till 2008.

xfurry commented 11 years ago

@schmoozerd: You may be right, but since the mangos foundation exists as a legal entity (as theLuda claimed) then he has the right to keep the copyright line there for as long as the project exists. It won't matter if he didn't commit anything lately, because the copyright extends up to 40 years or even more. See this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk862BbjWx4

Novo commented 11 years ago

There's no doubt about it. The terms of GPLv2 are clear. It's easy to check if CMangos has modified/removed the Copyright line, and if yes, shame on you, fix it and all is good.