Spurious name tags added by MAPS.ME users

[SomeoneElseOSM]

See for example http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1111915611/history .

A MAPS.ME user added cuisine=chicken to a "name=KFC" - a useful edit. Unfortunately they also added "name:en=KFC" - not useful.

[richlv]

this seems to happen in other regions as well. looks like users accidentally add language-specific name tags, in absolute majority of cases they are wrong (like adding name:ru with a latvian name)

[derickr]

This happens a lot. Probably the largest categories (duplicate_name) of edits I fix every morning: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oaOJSTbA4bAWGtaI4K4xyvcwQLndEYtumyAbi9H8ZAE/edit?usp=sharing

[burivuh]

Hi!

Currently new versions of application restrict user in editing name. User can edit only language-specific fields to avoid default names being written in the language of the user instead of language of an object or at least in the international (English) language.

Application then tries to setup default name by itself. For now it does not update default name if it already has been set (so basically default name is set for a new object if there's any appropriate lang-specific name).

Can you please tell us why is it a problem for a default name to have the same value as one of the translations?

[SomeoneElseOSM]

An extra name where it isn't needed is just one more thing to go wrong. For example, http://osm.org/way/204710866 now has the wrong name (the shop name changed).

In some cases (e.g. multilingual areas) it makes complete sense to have "name" the same as "name:language". In Wem, not so much.

[derickr]

It is also a problem in cases like this: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4362623400/history — name:gsw is not appropriate in this case, and "name" wasn't set.

Or at https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/30810961/history, where the user fixed the name, but it ended up adding it to name:en instead of fixing "name".

It's just a lot of extra work to check and fix.

[burivuh]

After some discussion we get a resolution for a duplicate problem, which we'll implement in 6.4 release.

http://osm.org/way/204710866 issue, though, will stay until we'll find a solution.

[derickr]

Not allowing the name (or category) to be changed, basically makes Maps.me useless for keeping shops and POIs up to date though. It would only be "good" for adding new POIs.

[burivuh]

@derickr We can't allow fixing default name directly for our general user. It simply creates new problem as we all have seen not long ago.

Problem with a default name is in its nature - OSM requires to write there the name user actually see with his own eyes on the POI. And we have no idea how can we check it.

We can rewrite the name for a country with only one state language if we have related rewritten translation, but this will be against OSM rules.

[marczoutendijk]

The use of the name:xx tag is mainly to give the name of an object in a different language than the "local" language. The Eiffel Tower is tagged with: name=Tour Eiffel (That's how the French call it) name:en=Eiffel Tower (That's how the English speaking people call it). Please stop filling OSM with useless tags.

[markusstraub]

I used maps.me for finding and editing POIs (as a more or less experienced mapper) and would like to suggest:

• when changing the details of an existing POI I can not see the name at all in the edit form. You decided that maps.me users should not be able to change the name=* tag - if you stick with this then I think it would be important to still show the name e.g. greyed out
• when creating new POIs don't force the name:language=* tags but allow the user to just create a name=* tag. I am not happy with my POIs being created like this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4370076904 .. the name:hr should not be there, since 'Bike Planet' is not the translation of the name of the bike shop in croatian but just the name as visible on the building - as @marczoutendijk pointed out above.

Thanks for creating the great maps.me app though, I am a happy user otherwise :)

[trigpoint]

When updating a local shop, its new name was added to the name:en tag, leaving the original name in the name tag. It then needed correcting using a proper editor. There is also no way of changing the POI category. If an edit cannot be completed correctly using maps.me, what is the point?

[richlv]

i do understand the reasoning behind this change - previously, there was the problem that some people (especially tourists) would change names of restaurants, attractions and landmarks to their own language. now we have a different problem (but it is good that the maps.me team is trying to solve this). how about returning the "name field", but calling it something like "official name" ? it wouldn't be always "official", but could it prevent a tourist from messing with the name ?

[burivuh]

Again. Handling default name as a local language name is not a problem.

But OSM rule states: " The common default name. (Note: For disputed areas, please use the name as displayed on e.g. street signs for the name tag. Put all alternatives into either localized name tags (e.g. name:tr/name:el) or the variants (e.g. loc_name/old_name/alt_name). Thank you.) "

So if POI has a name plate of MacDonald's in Russia POI's default name tag must be written in English, not Russian (local language).

That's why for now we're working on a solution that still won't modify default name except newly created but will not send duplicates.

Do you have any other ideas on the problem? We can develop additional tools or auto notes when app considers that the name potentially needs modification.

P.S. Changing field's name or comment doesn't work. We've already tried.

[iWowik]

You give a lying example. Both website and name plate on the restaurants](http://yandex.ru/maps/10758/himki/?source=wizgeo&l=map%2Cstv%2Csta&ll=37.461843%2C55.867625&z=17&panorama%5Bpoint%5D=37.462873%2C55.865729&panorama%5Bdirection%5D=252.530302%2C0.834990&panorama%5Bspan%5D=91.610338%2C30.000000) in Russia use Russian language. So Russian MacDonald's restaurants are mapped with name=Макдоналдс.

[burivuh]

Don't be lazy and look to the left for Agip gaz station, for example.

[iWowik]

It seems it is you who are lazy indeed and prefer fabricate examples

[SomeoneElseOSM]

We're also seeing bonkers locales such as "gsw" (e.g. on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41807409 ). Whilst I'm sure that the user's phone does indeed have that locale, it's pretty unlikely that a sweet shop off the Strand in London has only a Swiss German name, isn't it?

[Kjarrval]

A related problem happens when using the 'International (latin)' option since it adds an int_name tag instead of name, even when the user is creating the POI. At first I had my doubts I was picking the correct option since latin is indeed a recognised language (not just a type of alphabet). The tourists who visit the areas might have similar doubts. (It's also annoying having to scroll all the way down there for every single POI one adds/edits.)

A temporary measure might be, by default, to have local languages on the top of the list, defined by the map one is viewing, then the user's interface language (if different), and finally the rest of the languages. If the map doesn't contain information about the local language (or the GUI doesn't have a label for it), display a generic language option resulting in a name or int_name tag, depending on if the user is editing or adding a POI.

[gileri]

I did a little analysis on usage of the name:fr tag in France.

I downloaded the last version of nodes having a name:fr in France (which is surely redundant to name=*), and got 1193 unique changesets.

Of those changesets, 441 were from MAPS.ME.

[naoliv]

Any news about this, please? Here in Brazil we are seeing a lot of objects being inserted with name = name:pt

[Hjart]

Could you please display an existing native name (the OSM "name" tag somewhere in the edit window?

I'm seeing a lot of cases like i.e. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/47465912, where the contributor unneccessarily adds a "name:en". Sometimes I remove it, only to see the contributor come back to add it again :-/.

i think displaying the "name" somewhere in the edit window could cut down on these cases.

[iWowik]

There is the last item in the language list with not localized name "Native for each country" (hi, non English-speaking users!). MAPS.ME users should solve the quest to fund it if they want to set name=* Moreover they should solve this quest every time because MAPS.ME do intentionally left the item in the end of list. So you can imagine what MAPS.ME users think about the feature when use the "editor" in Siberian Winter with -30 degrees centigrade when the should scroll every time to the end of list.

So this item is almost used and MAPS.ME continue to duplicate name:* to name