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marimo-team / marimo

A reactive notebook for Python — run reproducible experiments, execute as a script, deploy as an app, and version with git.
https://marimo.io
Apache License 2.0
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Acknowledge Pluto.jl in the website #2937

Open juliohm opened 5 hours ago

juliohm commented 5 hours ago

Documentation is

Explain in Detail

I came across this project today and was really disappointed to see that Marimo is a Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V of Pluto.jl in Julia, and yet there is not a decent acknowledgement in the website.

Can you please acknowledge your source of inspiration more explicitly so that people at least have a chance to learn about Pluto.jl? A tiny link in the end of the README.md doesn't do it justice.

I am not involved with Pluto.jl development, but I am active open-source contributor and would be really pissed off if another project copied all my ideas without extensive acknowledgement.

Your Suggestion for Changes

Acknowledge Pluto.jl with more emphasis. Something like "Marimo is a port of Pluto.jl from Julia to Python" could at least educate people about the existence of the Julia project. They deserve more credit!

mscolnick commented 4 hours ago

I am sorry you feel this way. I am one of the maintainers of marimo (have written a lot of the code) and have to say I have never used Pluto.jl, so it's hardly a Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V.

@akshayka did have the original vision, which he mentions is inspired by Pluto in the README, among other things like Observable. If I understand correctly, Pluto was also inspired by Observable (shows in their README, but not their website).

juliohm commented 4 hours ago

Even the examples in the gallery are inspired by the examples in the Pluto website:

Pluto

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Marimo

Image

I really think that more credit is necessary.

mscolnick commented 4 hours ago

That example is from our community gallery and was written by a member of the marimo community, if you clicked the example, you would see the attribution to both Grant and Pluto.

Image

juliohm commented 3 hours ago

Hi @mscolnick , thank you for clarifying the situation with the example in the gallery.

Still, something is really off in terms of acknowledgements.

akshayka commented 3 hours ago

Hey @juliohm . I'm Akshay; like Myles said, I had the original vision for making marimo.

You might not be involved in Pluto.jl. But I have in fact corresponded with @fonsp, Pluto's creator, and Paul Berg, another Pluto maintainer.

Image

You'll notice the repo is linked in the message. They have responded enthusiastically in turn.

But marimo is hardly just "a port" of Pluto.jl to Python. It also remixes ideas from Streamlit (deploying marimo notebooks as read-only apps) from Observable (importable cells, which last I checked is not possible in Julia due to its flat file format), and from other projects.

marimo also has many ideas that we have not seen in other projects, including statically joining graphs across multiple languages (Python and SQL), notebook-level composition that embeds kernels inside other kernels, and Nix-inspired persistent caching (contributed by a community member). Many of our contributors have brought their own ideas to marimo, and have never used or seen Pluto.jl.

I love Pluto.jl; it's a phenomenal project, crafted with so much love and care, and it is truly an inspiration. We highlight our love for Pluto in the README, in forum posts, on social media, and in podcasts.

If you happen to drop in, @fonsp: thanks again for everything! ❤️

P.S. We weren't aware that the seam carving example was on Pluto's site. We just thought that it was a very compelling example.

liquidcarbon commented 3 hours ago

Chuck Norris can Ctrl+C from one language and Ctrl+V into another

juliohm commented 3 hours ago

Hi Akshay, I'm not saying that Marimo doesn't have other features developed after Pluto.jl. I'm saying that all the features highligted in the website are pretty much Pluto.jl's.

The fact that Pluto is such an inspiration and yet is not acknowledged on the website creates the wrong message that Marimo is the project that led those innovations.

Happy you exchanged words with Pluto creators. I still don't think you are doing it justice hiding it from the website.

Em sex., 22 de nov. de 2024, 19:31, Alexander Kislukhin < @.***> escreveu:

Chuck Norris can Ctrl+C from one language and Ctrl+V into another

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/marimo-team/marimo/issues/2937#issuecomment-2494979965, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAZQW3LDX5TTIX7CLG5JRXL2B6WDHAVCNFSM6AAAAABSKFFBF2VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDIOJUHE3TSOJWGU . You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

akshayka commented 3 hours ago

I'm not saying that Marimo doesn't have other features developed after Pluto.jl

Well, that's not at all what you said when you said that marimo is a Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V of Pluto.jl — which is a comment that is simply not true, and putting aside Myles and me (the only two project maintainers), is a really unkind thing to say to our community of contributors.

juliohm commented 3 hours ago

Yes, sorry for the Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V, but the Marimo website really made me feel bad for the Pluto devs. Try to be in their position, and imagine someone selling Marimo's successful ideas to a larger community, getting all the attention and funding. It doesn't feel fair. Even if I was a core Pluto dev, I wouldn't feel comfortable opening an issue here claiming acknowledgement. That is kind of humiliating. In academic settings, we take acknowledgements very seriously, that is where I am coming from.