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massgravel / Microsoft-Activation-Scripts

Open-source Windows and Office activator featuring HWID, Ohook, KMS38, and Online KMS activation methods, along with advanced troubleshooting.
https://massgrave.dev
GNU General Public License v3.0
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Debloat scripts? #285

Closed Obegg closed 12 months ago

Obegg commented 1 year ago

This issue could be entirely not related to this specific GitHub page (MAS), but this is one of many way to contact, so sorry in advance.

Obviously, great scripts and great website so it made me think: "well, they are super talented and know what they are doing, maybe their OS (which I presume is Windows) is clean from bloat, analytics and tracking, maybe they know how to clean their OS"

I would love to follow (if there will be any) guide on how to debloat Windows, especially from a credible source like massgravel.

JonnyTech commented 1 year ago

Try: https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil

Obegg commented 1 year ago

Already did, not perfect at all on Windows 10, just look at how many issues I've opened over there...

WindowsAddict commented 1 year ago

Hi @Obegg We recommend not using debloating scripts and modded ISO and Windows butchering tools available on the Internet, instead, we prefer to deal with it in official ways.

If you want to block telemetry then use the Enterprise edition of Windows and it will let you block the telemetry with the security option in group policy.

If you don't want start menu ads then use Professional workstation or Enterprise editions.

If you don't want preinstalled UWP apps then use Enterprise LTSC editions.

Obegg commented 1 year ago

I understand that Enterprise is great, but even that is not enough, windows still collects information even using Enterprise. One example (out of many) is: If you search for any settings in Windows 10 Enterprise it will send a DNS query to bing.com, while it doesn't affect performance, it is a privacy/security issue for some. Even the security option in group policy doesn't change that. Windows 10 Enterprise is not perfect out of the box, some changes must be done.

nekoppai commented 1 year ago

I understand that Enterprise is great, but even that is not enough, windows still collects information even using Enterprise. One example (out of many) is: If you search for any settings in Windows 10 Enterprise it will send a DNS query to bing.com, while it doesn't affect performance, it is a privacy/security issue for some. Even the security option in group policy doesn't change that. Windows 10 Enterprise is not perfect out of the box, some changes must be done.

That's not related to so called "debloating", or as I taken to calling it "mindlessly removing things and checking if it still boots". Group Policy is enough to make Windows silent and there is an official documentation for this.

XSpark0 commented 1 year ago

Just install Simplewall. It will stop Windows from connecting to the internet except for apps, services, etc. you have whitelisted.

https://github.com/henrypp/simplewall

ave9858 commented 12 months ago

If you search for any settings in Windows 10 Enterprise it will send a DNS query to bing.com,

DNS just to resolve bing is not an issue, what is actually sent in the request?

ave9858 commented 12 months ago

everyone, please don't suggest debloat scripts or other garbage in this thread, they're one of the biggest causes of issues for MAS users.

Obegg commented 12 months ago

DNS just to resolve bing is not an issue, what is actually sent in the request?

It is an issue, simply because there's nothing that should ping bing, I even removed the edge browser, disabled news feeds, disabled everything I can, removed everything I can, there's nothing on the PC - still pings bing. Don't believe me? You probably won't test it on your machine so use in a VM and remove and disable everything you can and soon enough you'll find out you can't stop this (unless blocking via hosts file or DNS service of some kind) https://www.michaelhorowitz.com/Windows10.spying.onsettings.php

Since it went to the HTTPS port (443) it was surely encrypted.

Probably encrypted and I wouldn't know.

That's not related to so called "debloating", or as I taken to calling it "mindlessly removing things and checking if it still boots". Group Policy is enough to make Windows silent and there is an official documentation for this.

This link is nothing new, I already know about it, and I did take counter-measures, you can see I already opened issues about those in the GitHub linked in the second comment, but even those changes doesn't stop the tracking. Point is - windows is never silent, prove me wrong (hint: I use Pi-Hole so I know)

ave9858 commented 12 months ago

It is an issue, simply because there's nothing that should ping bing, I even removed the edge browser, disabled news feeds, disabled everything I can, removed everything I can, there's nothing on the PC - still pings bing.

Bing is Microsoft owned and settings contains some dynamic data, it could be pulling that from bing. You can MITM the https using fiddler to check what is sent. Just because a DNS query exists does not make it an issue.

ave9858 commented 12 months ago

I checked the decrypted request, and the bing requests are not spying. They're just for showing the suggested help in settings, which is updated from the internet.

AnonymousWP commented 12 months ago

everyone, please don't suggest debloat scripts or other garbage in this thread, they're one of the biggest causes of issues for MAS users.

This is nonsense. I've been debloating Windows for many years and have never gotten any issues. You just need to know what you can and can't debloat, and a lot of debloating software tells you what's recommended (and safe) to remove and what isn't.

WindowsAddict commented 12 months ago

Obegg asked our point of view on debloating and we shared. All team members are aligned on this point Closing this issue now.

thecatontheceiling commented 12 months ago

everyone, please don't suggest debloat scripts or other garbage in this thread, they're one of the biggest causes of issues for MAS users.

This is nonsense. I've been debloating Windows for many years and have never gotten any issues. You just need to know what you can and can't debloat, and a lot of debloating software tells you what's recommended (and safe) to remove and what isn't.

if you know what you're doing, good for you.

we have seen a lot of users in our support channels who mess that up and end up breaking a bunch of things, we do not recommend doing it for that reason as there's always a risk for breakage. (if you've been learning to tweak windows for some time you will know that windows is incredibly fragile)

AnonymousWP commented 11 months ago

everyone, please don't suggest debloat scripts or other garbage in this thread, they're one of the biggest causes of issues for MAS users.

This is nonsense. I've been debloating Windows for many years and have never gotten any issues. You just need to know what you can and can't debloat, and a lot of debloating software tells you what's recommended (and safe) to remove and what isn't.

if you know what you're doing, good for you.

Thanks.

we have seen a lot of users in our support channels who mess that up and end up breaking a bunch of things, we do not recommend doing it for that reason as there's always a risk for breakage. (if you've been learning to tweak windows for some time you will know that windows is incredibly fragile)

It depends on what you're using. Also, why is that your responsibility? It isn't. MAS has nothing to do with activation scripts, so why also not recommending debloating at all? It's the users' responsibility to research the topic and find out what's okay to remove and what isn't. Like I said: most tools will tell you which components/apps can be removed without any issues.

thecatontheceiling commented 11 months ago

we won't recommend something that can cause unintended behavior on users PC's and we certainly won't waste our valuable time making a script for something as simple as debloating windows instead of working on MAS

thanks for your input but unfortunately none of us want to spend time on writing a debloater

AnonymousWP commented 11 months ago

we won't recommend something that can cause unintended behavior on users PC's and we certainly won't waste our valuable time making a script for something as simple as debloating windows instead of working on MAS

thanks for your input but unfortunately none of us want to spend time on writing a debloater

Just to be clear: I never vouched for MAS making a debloat script. I was purely talking about MAS maintainers saying "you should never use that".

WindowsAddict commented 11 months ago

https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts/issues/285#issuecomment-1768365404 This is our official stand on this topic. Locking this thread here.