matrix-synapse-py3 debian package doesn't support non-systemd environments

EmanuelLoos commented 3 years ago

Description:

I found out here that Synapse doesn't support other init systems then systemd after unsuccessfully trying to get it to work inside a Linux-VServer container on Devuan GNU/Linux.

I think you really should support other init systems like SysVinit because of the following reasons:

First of all systemd was discussed very controversial. (Debian debate about systemd) It goes against the original Unix philosophy (the part of software doing only one thing, but doing it well), which GNU/Linux (and GNU/Hurd) have adopted. I also think that complex software is less secure and less stable, because less people are able to check it. As server might have much information about many users, which also more or less rely on the server to work, and is exposed to the internet all the time I think it is crucial for it to be (very) stable and secure (which is also why I use well-tried, simpler (measured on simplicity of understanding the software, not the simplicity of using it) Linux-VServer instead of something like Docker or LXC/LXD by the way).
Second in order for Matrix to bring people together it should work on as many systems as possible. I for example am not able to simply switch to systemd on my private server, because Linux-VServer doesn't work (well and secure) with systemd and I have a working Cloud, encrypted Pastebin and online whiteboard running on my server in different Linux-VServer containers. I pretty much rely on my self-hosted online services as the reason I am hosting them is to be independent (or at least as independent as possible) from the big concerns like Google or Microsoft.

Considering the elaborated reasons, it would be great if you could support other init systems like SysVinit.

Thanks in advance!

PS: Feel free to move this issue to Dendrite if init system compatibility is easier to implement there or you would like to bring new features directly to the newer version.

Bubu commented 3 years ago

synapse works fine without systemd, please post any errors you encountered.

richvdh commented 3 years ago

I think it's true that the matrix-synapse-py3 package doesn't have sysvinit init scripts - is that what @EmanuelLoos is referring to?

EmanuelLoos commented 3 years ago

Thank you for your reply!

I think it's true that the matrix-synapse-py3 package doesn't have sysvinit init scripts - is that what @EmanuelLoos is referring to?

I think so, I couldn't manage to start matrix-synapse or matrix-synapse-py3 using service start matrix-synapse or service start matrix-synapse-py3

I also tried using systemdtl, a translator for systemd commands to cover any possible hard-coded systemd commands (and maybe anything I don't understand) with no luck.

synapse works fine without systemd, please post any errors you encountered.

I couldn't find any guide on how to set up Synapse on Debian (Devuan is basically a fork of Debian without systemd optimized to cause less troubles because systemd is gone) that didn't involve using systemd.

SysVinit doesn't find the service, which is why I am unable to start it.

No documentation for setting up Synapse on SysVinit being available, starting Synapse using SysVinit resulting in SysVinit failing to find the service and finally this post made me conclude Synapse doesn't support SysVinit.

ptman commented 3 years ago

You should be able to start synapse using synctl in e.g. a screen session. Or take a sysvinit service file template and modify it based on the systemd files: https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/blob/develop/contrib/systemd/matrix-synapse.service#L32

EmanuelLoos commented 3 years ago

Thank you all for your help!

I used a template to create a SysVinit service file and am reinstalling matrix-synapse, however while reinstalling I realized that the newest Debian package from the Backports already has a SysVinit script since about one month. Sorry I didn't look more precise before submitting the issue. I guess I was to much thinking about reasons for "supporting" other init systems and forgetting to look around again for things that have changed since I encountered the issue.

As SysVinit is not the only init system other then sytemd I will leave the decision up to you to either close the issue or leave it open.

matrix-org / synapse

matrix-synapse-py3 debian package doesn't support non-systemd environments #9266