Fusee Suite not starting

ghost commented 2 years ago

TL:DR: Trinket starts switch in RCM but won't inject the payload

Hey, I had my trinket working without any problems for over a year. But because of some random issues with my joycons I did a fresh switch setup. I also updated my trinket. But now it only lights up the red power led when starting the switch. The multicolour LED stays off all the time. My switch ends up in RCM mode but the payload isnt pushed (I dont see the SD card missing/ Fusee_Suite bootscreen). I also reflashed the trinket multiple times by pressing the reset button when the switch is booted. I can upload both the first and the second uf2 without any issues. Yet I am unable to get the trinket working. Am I missing something? Or might it be that my trinket has gone defective?

Would appreciate any help or pointers what to try

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Is the LED going green now? the single blink?

ghost commented 2 years ago

Power LED and Multi LED shortly flash red. And then I am in RCM

ghost commented 2 years ago

You mean once again when I hold vol up ? Or is the Multi LED supposed to light up green on boot?

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

OK... Stand by... Sorry about this - hope you are OK for time.

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

OK... Not expecting this to work... But lets try. TRINKET_TEST6.zip

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

No dont hold VOL up. On successful payload push / RCM found, that single little (Red in your case) LED flash, should be green

ghost commented 2 years ago

Still the red flashes with both LEDs. Via what straps does the Trinket tell that the switch is in RCM?

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Joycon and volume

ghost commented 2 years ago

Arent that the straps that the trinket uses to get the switch into RCM?

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Ahhh... Joycon and volume trigger RCM... Then the Trinket looks for the Switch in RCM mode (just as though it is plugged in to the USB port). So the Switch says to the Trinket "Hey, I'm in RCM" and it does this via USB.

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

OK... Daft question... How have you got the Trinket fitted? As my diagram? I'm wondering if the voltage is sagging because there have been substantial changes to part 1.

ghost commented 2 years ago

I am using the alt points on the back for 3.3, joycon and vol+. And as I mentioned I currently havent connected the USB disconnect strap. But I can also resolder 3.3 to the front if that might help. Or can I power the trinket externally for testing ?

ghost commented 2 years ago

I can also try to use a multimeter to check whether vcc is collapsing but I guess it will be too quick for me to notice

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

OK... Potential things to check... Check the 3v3 point. Check its not too long. You could also remove the 5 pin regulator in case that is dragging the V+ down(there will be a certain amount of resistance between the outputs and ground. I'm wondering if this regulator is being greedy with the 3v3. If you do remove this, you will no longer be able to power from USB...

As an alternative, disconnect the 3v3 and try connecting Trinket to battery 5v(so battery + to Trinket 5v(or USB pad i think it is, next to pin 0)

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

If the Trinket then pushes the payload with the 5v USB connection soldered, (remember it will be permanent on) then it is indeed the 3v3 sagging. You will probably need to push reset on the Trinket once you are in RCM because it will already be powered.

ghost commented 2 years ago

Ill try powering using 5v first

ghost commented 2 years ago

Is there any known 5V point but the battery connector ?

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Yes. Just next to the battery connector should be.

ghost commented 2 years ago

I am getting ~0V next to the battery

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

There is definitely a 5v point there somewhere. I cannot remember where exactly it is.

ghost commented 2 years ago

Cant seem to find it tho. But I could remove the regulator and see whether that helps

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Before you do that, try some really early part 1 and part 2 please. See if they working.

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Try version 3 or V6, with the old part 1

ghost commented 2 years ago

Tried v3 with old part 1. A few yellow flashes followed by a longer and a shorter red. Still ended up in RCM

ghost commented 2 years ago

I guess Ill order another Trinket and resolder everything to see whether that fixed it

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Ok... This is beyond weird. Is there any way you can do a continuity test between your d+ /d- on trinket and end of usb cable( where it plug into pc might be easiest). So plug usb lead in to switch and continuity test the middle data pins(pc end) to the points on the trinket?

ghost commented 2 years ago

Just to check whether I understood you correctly. Ill plug in a USB cable and check for continuity from d+ to d+ and afterwards from d- to d- ?

ghost commented 2 years ago

Everything seems to be fine. Have continuty from one of the middle pins to d+ and continuity from the other to D-

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Yes. So from the trinket(d+) where the usb port used to be, to end of the cable. Same with d-

ghost commented 2 years ago

Yep that works

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Honestly... I'm at a loss. The issue is the trinket not seeing the switch is in RCM. So if no versions are working, there is an issue elsewhere. Usb wires too long, power sagging. Could the battery even be very unsyncd... Crap inside the usb port giving a very high impedance between d+/d-. Tomorrow I will try to replicate the issue some more. You could try removing regulator...

ghost commented 2 years ago

No worries. I highly appreciate your effort. I just ordered another trinket. Once it is arrived I will give it another shot and comment my findings. Maybe it will work. But otherwise ill take the loss. At least it did work for a long time (and the one I installed for a friend is still working fine) Awesome project btw

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Very kind of you to say. I just wanted to rule out software issues(which I think we have at this point). Try another trinket and check the usb port for debris. What's puzzling though is it was working, but now it isn't. With any version. There is a filter just above the usb pads(on some units) on the switch motherboard. Tiny little black ic. This could be pulling the d lines down. The pc will have stronger ones and it is before the tegra, so Fusee drive will still show. It is safe to remove this

ghost commented 2 years ago

I'll first wait for the new trinket and try other stuff afterwards. The behaviour is so weird that I am hoping my trinket has gone crazy

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Yeah it is weird. Definitely a high impedance somewhere. That filter I mentioned is only fitted in some markets for whatever reason. It's a new one for me and I've been doing this sh.t for nearly 5 years. I'll investigate more tomorrow. I'll leave this on. Actually I better close it because it's not the software. I'll reopen if needed

ghost commented 2 years ago

FYI: Trinket arrived today. Flashed and soldered the new trinket: Same behaviour. Resoldered d+ and D-: Same behaviour. Resoldered every connection and inspected every solder point for bridges: Same behaviour. I guess I'll ditch the Trinket and get a RCM Loader or OTG USB Cable

ghost commented 2 years ago

With the trinket installed I can inject from my PC. But I cant inject from my Smartphone (USB C to USB C). I am also unable to change the USB mode on my smartphone to Host (USB controlled via smartphone). But once I unsoldered VCC I can inject with my phone. Any reason why this would be the case? Thought about using the Trinket just for RCM

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

I'm wondering if that filter above the front usb pads is playing up. If you have the facilities, check the impedance of the usb d lines to gnd. Then remove filter and recheck. You cannot inject from a phone... Can you inject from a phone with trinket disconnected?

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 17:02 hqas, @.***> wrote:

With the trinket installed I can inject from my PC. But I cant inject from my Smartphone (USB C to USB C). I am also unable to change the USB mode on my smartphone to Host (USB controlled via smartphone). But once I unsoldered VCC I can inject with my phone. Any reason why this would be the case? Thought about using the Trinket just for RCM

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/mattytrog/FUSEE_SUITE/issues/5#issuecomment-1170173204, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AJ26VZABHZTEO42ZDDTDCULVRRXQXANCNFSM5Z7RDV7A . You are receiving this because you modified the open/close state.Message ID: @.***>

ghost commented 2 years ago

Impedance or resistance?

With the trinket disconnected(just 3.3V disconnected but d+ and d- still connected) I can inject with my phone. When the trinket is connected to VCC I cannot inject. But maybe that's because the trinket tries to inject once USB power is connected, doesn't it? Just curious why it works on the PC but with my phone. But maybe that's just android behaving

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

I wanted to know what the continuity was like in the usb traces on the switch. It goes USBC>test pads(trinket pads)>filter> then through some vias to the underside.

The current/voltage levels are higher coming from a pc usb port and could still talk to the switch in RCM and the Fusee drive. These are before that filter. It seems like the switch cannot "hear" the trinket because something is making the data traces "deaf". I'm thinking that filter.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 20:49 hqas, @.***> wrote:

Impedance or resistance?

With the trinket disconnected(just 3.3V disconnected but d+ and d- still connected) I can inject.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/mattytrog/FUSEE_SUITE/issues/5#issuecomment-1170420392, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AJ26VZE5EMCOQ3UAYQSFZITVRSSDZANCNFSM5Z7RDV7A . You are receiving this because you modified the open/close state.Message ID: @.***>

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Look at these points. The big ic appears to be some kind of filter. It's only fitted to some markets. The little one is a ferrite choke. Take some readings and maybe remove the big one. Ensure the choke isn't straying to gnd

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 21:59 mattytrog mattytrog, @.***> wrote:

I wanted to know what the continuity was like in the usb traces on the switch. It goes USBC>test pads(trinket pads)>filter> then through some vias to the underside.

The current/voltage levels are higher coming from a pc usb port and could still talk to the switch in RCM and the Fusee drive. These are before that filter. It seems like the switch cannot "hear" the trinket because something is making the data traces "deaf". I'm thinking that filter.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 20:49 hqas, @.***> wrote:

Impedance or resistance?

With the trinket disconnected(just 3.3V disconnected but d+ and d- still connected) I can inject.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/mattytrog/FUSEE_SUITE/issues/5#issuecomment-1170420392, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AJ26VZE5EMCOQ3UAYQSFZITVRSSDZANCNFSM5Z7RDV7A . You are receiving this because you modified the open/close state.Message ID: @.***>

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

Also... Try going straight to the alt usbs on the back from trinket...

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 20:49 hqas, @.***> wrote:

Impedance or resistance?

With the trinket disconnected(just 3.3V disconnected but d+ and d- still connected) I can inject.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/mattytrog/FUSEE_SUITE/issues/5#issuecomment-1170420392, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AJ26VZE5EMCOQ3UAYQSFZITVRSSDZANCNFSM5Z7RDV7A . You are receiving this because you modified the open/close state.Message ID: @.***>

mattytrog commented 2 years ago

I don't think an external battery based injector will help you. Unless it's a laptop xx

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 22:18 mattytrog mattytrog, @.***> wrote:

Also... Try going straight to the alt usbs on the back from trinket...

On Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 20:49 hqas, @.***> wrote:

Impedance or resistance?

With the trinket disconnected(just 3.3V disconnected but d+ and d- still connected) I can inject.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/mattytrog/FUSEE_SUITE/issues/5#issuecomment-1170420392, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AJ26VZE5EMCOQ3UAYQSFZITVRSSDZANCNFSM5Z7RDV7A . You are receiving this because you modified the open/close state.Message ID: @.***>

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Fusee Suite not starting #5