Pimple and Rash artworks on the Game Over screen and Game Completed screen

[AlWesker]

Master System version have the same Pimple and Rash artworks used for three game instances: Selection screen (comes after title screen), Game Over screen and Game Completed screen.

Selection Screen

Game Over Screen

If Pimple dies

If Rash dies

Game Complete Screen

If Pimple completed the game

If Rash completed the game

If Pimple and Rash completed the game

SNES version use those Pimple and Rash artworks (which already have converted artworks from the SNES version in Pyron folder) for the Selection screen only. Game Over screen uses completely different artworks for both of them (it's a larger artwork given than in the Game Over screen, only one toad can be displayed at time, not the two of them jointly) and there's no Game Completed screen as such on the SNES version.

Selection Screen

Game Over Screen

If Pimple dies

If Rash dies

The ideal thing would be having the Master System version having the SNES Selection Screen artworks (which are already converted in Pyron folder) on the Selection Screen and Game Complete screens, while the Game Over Screens would use the SNES Game Over Screens artworks (those would have to be converted). The Game Over Screen artworks are very large in width, but since you are never going to get both Rash and Pimple together on the Game Over Screen (since they can't both die at the same time, it has to be one or another), the two artworks will never appear placed at the same time like they cand do on the Game Complete Screen in case you complete the game with the two characters. In that situation, since the Selection Screen artworks from the SNES version are going to appear there like they do now and they are still very similar in length/width to the Master System ones (but better drawn), it's not going to be affected by the fact of the two appearing individually or at the same time.

[maxim-zhao]

Game selection screen is discussed under #11. I'm adding the banners on game over, game end remains to be seen.

[AlWesker]

Yeah, I believe I started this issue because you required some explanation about how the Master System version and SNES version work with these types of artwork screens. It was more of a illustrative topic than anything else.

Regarding the game end, I suppose it should be left as it is now but with the updated artworks and fonts. And maybe they should appear after the ending (whenever that gets implemented), instead of after the last intermission like it's now.

[maxim-zhao]

The game uses the same code for game over and game complete, so by default they will look the same.

[AlWesker]

The problem with putting the Game Over artworks on the Game Complete screen is that in case you complete the game with 2 Players, the two artworks are bound to appear together.

And getting the two horizontally extended Game Over artworks from the SNES version to appear together is going to be a problem, so that's why in the Game Complete screen it should be the updated SNES artworks from the Selection screen the ones to appear. Isn't that possible?

Right now the Game Over screen uses the Game Over artworks while the Game Complete screen is still using the old Master System artworks so in theory it should be possible to replace them separately.

[PyronsLair]

We cant create a custom screen to game over section?

Em qua, 8 de ago de 2018 07:08, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

The problem with putting the Game Over artworks on the Game Complete screen is that in case you complete the game with 2 Players, the two artworks are bound to appear.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43831099-4e9473a8-9b03-11e8-915d-12cf235a7dca.png

And getting the two horizontally extended Game Over artworks from the SNES version to appear together is going to be a problem, so that's why in the Game Complete screen it should be the updated SNES artworks from the Selection screen the ones to appear. Isn't that possible?

Right now the Game Over screen uses the Game Over artworks while the Game Complete screen is still using the old Master System artworks so in theory it should be possible to replace them separately.

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[maxim-zhao]

Can you make me a savestate for this case?

I'm somewhat inclined to split the flow so we can customise each scenario as wanted, but I need to map out all the cases - I hadn't considered this one.

[maxim-zhao]

I'm ready to do the game completed screen. I want to keep the text where it is, but what do we want to do with the art? In theory we could have distinct art for Pimple, Rash and both of them. Maybe this is where we could have some original art of them playing SMS? Art needs to fit in 248x104, and the scores are drawn assuming Pimple is on the left for 2-player mode. Shall I start with placeholders following this pattern?

[AlWesker]

As placeholders, I would opt to place the same updated SNES arts of the selection screen.

As for using original arts, the game actually has some. They can be seen in this poster which also includes the cover art of the SNES version.

Now, if we want to use the same pattern of "Pimple artwork displaying if you are playing as Pimple", "Rash artwork displaying if you are playing as Rash" and "Pimple and Rash artworks displaying if you are playing as both", then maybe the best option would be getting the artworks of Rash and Pimple from the part that belongs to the cover art (ie, the ones in which they are riding vehicles), but maybe they look too agressive for an ending image.

I think the best option would be one that would follow another pattern and I don't know if that could be made to change. And it's putting the art in the upper side in which the three toads appear together. That image gives a perfect sense of completing the game as it pictures a representation that Zitz has been rescued and the three toads are reunited with happy ending faces. Putting that art, though, would require that the same art with the three toads together would appear no matter if you have completed the game with Pimple alone, with Rash alone, or with both toads, but I still think it's the best choice for a game complete artwork indeed.

By the way, do you still need a savestate for ending the game with both characters?

[maxim-zhao]

I think converting non pixel art is harder. I do need that savestate, I think - I can try to hack the existing one to make the game think it's in 2 player mode, but it may not be consistent. I guess it's very tough to play through in 2 player mode...

[AlWesker]

No, don't worry. I can submit that.

I just uploaded in the root folder of GitHub. Feel free to remove it when you get it.

[PyronsLair]

So when you guys decide tell me, I can try something, will be nice add game over custom screen

Em qua, 8 de ago de 2018 22:33, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

No, don't worry. I can submit that.

I just uploaded in the root folder of GitHub. Feel free to remove it when you get it.

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[AlWesker]

About converting non pixel art, well, I don't see much more options of using original artwork besides those. And I think that one with the three toads together suits a lot for the intended screen as long as it doesn't hit the tile count limit. What do you think, @PyronsLair?

Here are some other possible sources of the artwork taken from magazines, although the poster one seem to be a more complete version than these.

If it's not possible to convert it, then I think the best solution is simply using the same artworks of the selection screen, updating the Master System ones.

[PyronsLair]

This art is very cooler for the ending.. I think we can convert it..

But what I want is damaged toads at game over screen

Em qua, 8 de ago de 2018 22:47, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

About converting non pixel art, well, I don't see much more options of using original artwork besides those. And I think that one with the three toads together suits a lot for the intended screen as long as it doesn't hit the tile count limit. What do you think, @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair?

Here are some other possible sources for the artwork.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43873339-91aa4f22-9b86-11e8-9c8d-a91d61c91ad2.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43873386-bcb673b2-9b86-11e8-9fa0-09fa8d909a48.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43873423-d9d115c4-9b86-11e8-9325-1ffbeae8becf.png

If it's not possible to convert it, then I think the best solution is simply using the same artworks of the selection screen, updating the Master System ones.

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[PyronsLair]

Like this https://www.spriters-resource.com/genesis_32x_scd/battletoadsdoubledragon/sheet/87321/

Em qua, 8 de ago de 2018 22:50, Gabriel Pyron gabpyron@gmail.com escreveu:

This art is very cooler for the ending.. I think we can convert it..

But what I want is damaged toads at game over screen

Em qua, 8 de ago de 2018 22:47, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

About converting non pixel art, well, I don't see much more options of using original artwork besides those. And I think that one with the three toads together suits a lot for the intended screen as long as it doesn't hit the tile count limit. What do you think, @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair?

Here are some other possible sources for the artwork.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43873339-91aa4f22-9b86-11e8-9c8d-a91d61c91ad2.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43873386-bcb673b2-9b86-11e8-9fa0-09fa8d909a48.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43873423-d9d115c4-9b86-11e8-9325-1ffbeae8becf.png

If it's not possible to convert it, then I think the best solution is simply using the same artworks of the selection screen, updating the Master System ones.

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[AlWesker]

Like Battletoads Double Dragon? Don't you like the Game Over screens of the SNES version of Battletoads in Battlemaniacs that we already inserted in the Master System version? I think they look cool and the toads also have a defeated look in their faces which suits perfect the Game Over situation.

Actually, those Game Over screens of Battletoads in Battlemaniacs are aiming to follow the same pattern that the NES version of the Battletoads did for the Game Over screens, a feature that was sadly missing in other versions of the original Battletoads game like the Mega Drive or the Game Gear. They are clearly a homage.

Battletoads Double Dragon has those portraits following a damaged pattern face because that game had a recurrent theme with damaged portraits. When you beat a boss in that game, you get a damaged portrait of the boss, and you also get it from your own characters in the Game Over screen. This would be incomplete in Battletoads in Battlemaniacs as there are really no bosses in this game (except for the stone pig and the Dark Queen herself) and therefore they wouldn't countermatch. I think it's best to follow what the SNES version did and which is also a homage to the original Battletoads game (NES version only, sadly).

[maxim-zhao]

Using the SNES game over art fits the remit for "restoring" the port. Since the game complete screen is not in the SNES version, I think we have a free hand to draw something new.

[AlWesker]

Yeah, I think like that too. Besides, they are pretty good and keep consistency with Battletoads (NES) as I said.

For the Game Complete screen, please try with that art of the three toads from the poster, @PyronsLair. The poster seems a better source for it than the magazines or the Japanese Super Famicom cover art, since it shows a little more of the lower part of the artwork.

Too bad the poster has some noticeable folds which I don't know if they are easy to fix. I wish I had the poster to scan it and provide a better source of it, but unfortunately the poster comes only with North American copies of the SNES game while mine is an European copy.

[PyronsLair]

I need a better image, all them are of poor quality with alot of noise.

2018-08-09 8:33 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

Yeah, I think like that too. Besides, they are pretty good and keep consistency with Battletoads (NES) as I said.

For the Game Complete screen, please try with that art of the three toads from the poster, @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair. The poster seems a better source for it than the magazines or the Japanese Super Famicom cover art, since it shows a little more of the lower part of the artwork.

Too bad the poster has some noticeable folds which I don't know if they are easy to fix. I wish I had the poster to scan it and provide a better source of it, but unfortunately the poster comes only with North American copies of the SNES game while mine is an European copy.

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[PyronsLair]

I did this one..

https://i.imgur.com/PwNwhIp.png

You just need to cut the area that you think is cooler to put on the game and tell to add some border to not float on the screen

2018-08-09 8:46 GMT-03:00 Gabriel Pyron gabpyron@gmail.com:

I need a better image, all them are of poor quality with alot of noise.

2018-08-09 8:33 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

Yeah, I think like that too. Besides, they are pretty good and keep consistency with Battletoads (NES) as I said.

For the Game Complete screen, please try with that art of the three toads from the poster, @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair. The poster seems a better source for it than the magazines or the Japanese Super Famicom cover art, since it shows a little more of the lower part of the artwork.

Too bad the poster has some noticeable folds which I don't know if they are easy to fix. I wish I had the poster to scan it and provide a better source of it, but unfortunately the poster comes only with North American copies of the SNES game while mine is an European copy.

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[PyronsLair]

Another one, converted from arcade..

looks amazing in my opinion and uses less than 370 tiles.. its already in SMS resolution https://i.imgur.com/Idr158q.png

2018-08-09 10:17 GMT-03:00 Gabriel Pyron gabpyron@gmail.com:

I did this one..

https://i.imgur.com/PwNwhIp.png

You just need to cut the area that you think is cooler to put on the game and tell to add some border to not float on the screen

2018-08-09 8:46 GMT-03:00 Gabriel Pyron gabpyron@gmail.com:

I need a better image, all them are of poor quality with alot of noise.

2018-08-09 8:33 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

Yeah, I think like that too. Besides, they are pretty good and keep consistency with Battletoads (NES) as I said.

For the Game Complete screen, please try with that art of the three toads from the poster, @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair. The poster seems a better source for it than the magazines or the Japanese Super Famicom cover art, since it shows a little more of the lower part of the artwork.

Too bad the poster has some noticeable folds which I don't know if they are easy to fix. I wish I had the poster to scan it and provide a better source of it, but unfortunately the poster comes only with North American copies of the SNES game while mine is an European copy.

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[AlWesker]

The one from Battletoads Amiga (the one in which they carry weapons), I don't like it that much. It's not very well drawn.

You know what's the problem with taking images from Battletoads Arcade? Zitz's color. They changed the color of Zitz from yellow (which is the one that Battletoads in Battlemaniacs still uses) to a bluish green in both in Battletoads Double Dragon and Battletoads Arcade. So Zitz would have to be recolored in order to match.

It's too bad we can't use that artwork from the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster as it's proper artwork from the game itself. I can try to look for another source or even attempting to get the poster somehow and do a good scan of it.

There's actually a similar artwork on Battletoads Arcade ending's (even though that's still an artwork from a different game) that maybe we can use, and it's the one that appears on Battletoads Arcade ending with the three toads together.

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/b/bato.htm

Like I say, the concept is similar to the one of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster, but again, it would still need to recolor Zitz to match.

[PyronsLair]

Is not a problem.. I redid the color to one more closer to snes opening.. also i will re-use it a litle more in the future https://i.imgur.com/nDkWNoQ.png

Also this arcade art is much more cooler than the poster or the arcade ending, pixel art ftw Look.. battlemaniacs characters design matchs as the arcade so is nothing worng to use it.

2018-08-09 11:04 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

The one from Battletoads Amiga (the one in which they carry weapons), I don't like it that much.

You know what's the problem with taking images from Battletoads Arcade? Zitz's color. They changed the color of Zitz from yellow (which is the one that Battletoads in Battlemaniacs still uses) to a bluish green in both in Battletoads Double Dragon and Battletoads Arcade. So Zitz would have to be recolored in order to match.

It's too bad we can't use that artwork from the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster as it's proper artwork from the game itself. I can try to look for another source or even attempting to get the poster somehow and do a good scan of it.

There's actually a similar artwork on Battletoads Arcade ending's (even though that's still an artwork from a different game) that maybe we can use, and it's the one that appears on Battletoads Arcade ending with the three toads together.

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/b/bato.htm

Like I say, the concept is similar to the one of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster, but again, it would still need to recolor Zitz to match.

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[AlWesker]

I see your point, but I'm not that convinced by the use of those artworks because they are very big sized due to the toads appearing in full body (that's why I think the other artworks where they appear just half of the body are better suited) and they are also very saturated with a lot of shades which don't seem to suit well the Master System palette,

I think the color gradients would be much softer if we use either the Battletoads Arcade ending artworks or try to adapt the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster one, and since in both cases the toads are represented with just half of their bodies, their representation of detail will be much better than trying to stretch a full body artwork like those. Or that's what I thinking at least.

I'm already moving myself to get a good high quality scan of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork from the poster, which would be the best fit since that's artwork originated from the game itself and wouldn't detach by using artworks from another game (even if it's similar). If we can get a good one and it's possible to readapt it then I think the best is using that one. If not, well, then we will discuss which of the Battletoads Arcade artworks are better to use, though I'm still inclined to use the ones of the ending in that case.

[PyronsLair]

I see your point, but I'm not that convinced by the use of those artworks because they are very big sized due to the toads appearing in full body (that's why I think the other artworks where they appear just half of the body is better) and they are also very saturated and have a lot of shades which don't seem to suit well the Master System palette,

They are in SMS resolution, also uses less than 370 tiles and are satured because is already using the SMS color pallete.

I think the color gradients would be much softer if we use either the Battletoads Arcade ending artworks or adapt the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster one, and since it's just half of the body, there will be more detail on their faces than trying to stretch a full body artwork like those. Or that's what I thinking at least.

Battlemaniacs poster dosen't looks good at wall, its much more cartoony look than the artwork used inside of the game. Also the arcade ending the characters poses is more of the same, its almost the same poses that you already see on the game.. pimple with crossed arms.. rash with the same standard face.. is more of the same..

The conversion of the 3 toads jumping is the second more cooler of the battletoads you can see in any game.. only looses for the arcades zoom in presentation of each char.

I'm already moving myself to get a good high quality scan of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork from the poster, which would be the best fit since that's artwork originated from the game itself and wouldn't detach by using artworks from another game (even if it's similar). If we can get a good one and it's possible to readapt it then I think the best is using that one. If not, well, then we will discuss which of the Battletoads Arcade artworks are better to use (though I'm still inclined to use the ones of the ending in that case).

Inespressive art.. just 3 toads doing nothing.. i think that every player want see a cool stuff on the ending.. like in TMNT games.

My vote goes to arcade pixel art.. If you and maxim choose the poster or ending art from arcade its ok. But at least send me the image with full black backgroud. You can do it disabling the bkg layers on emulator and in the poster using photshop

2018-08-09 12:05 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

I see your point, but I'm not that convinced by the use of those artworks because they are very big sized due to the toads appearing in full body (that's why I think the other artworks where they appear just half of the body is better) and they are also very saturated and have a lot of shades which don't seem to suit well the Master System palette,

I think the color gradients would be much softer if we use either the Battletoads Arcade ending artworks or adapt the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster one, and since it's just half of the body, there will be more detail on their faces than trying to stretch a full body artwork like those. Or that's what I thinking at least.

I'm already moving myself to get a good high quality scan of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork from the poster, which would be the best fit since that's artwork originated from the game itself and wouldn't detach by using artworks from another game (even if it's similar). If we can get a good one and it's possible to readapt it then I think the best is using that one. If not, well, then we will discuss which of the Battletoads Arcade artworks are better to use (though I'm still inclined to use the ones of the ending in that case).

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[AlWesker]

I'm already moving myself to get the poster artwork at a higher/better quality, don't worry.

In case I fail to get that one, then I'll see what can I do with the ending artwork of Battletoads Arcade.

@maxim-zhao, what do you think?

[maxim-zhao]

I don't like the saturated art, especially the yellow and red chests. It needs to match the other art, ideally using the same colours. Some careful dithering would help too.

I'd still like to have three sets of art for game complete - Pimple 1-player, Rash 1-player, and 2-player. The "reunion" picture would need to wait until Zitz is rescued - although the script doesn't give much clue as to when that is, I see two toads exit the screen and three enter the helicopter.

[AlWesker]

Zitz is considered rescued during the ending. That's why he appears entering the helicopter during the ending. The fact that he doesn't appear getting out the gate with the other two toads was lazyness. They didn't bother to make a set of Zitz sprites for that situation.

If you notice how the ending is done, it's basically a mirror match of the intro. In the intro, the three toads (with very small sprites) get out the Battlecopter and enter the Psicone building, and in the ending it's a mirror of that scene with them getting out the Psicone building and entering the helicopter. Why Zitz is not seen getting out the gate with Pimple and Rash? Because that's a mirror match of the scene in which Pimple and Rash enter the gate to rescue Zitz (who has already been kidnapped by the Pig of Apocalypse by then) and they didn't bother to create a handful of Zitz sprites similar to the small ones of the Psicone building scene so they went lazy with the ending scene mirror matching the intro one. But yeah, he's considered rescued by then, and the Game Complete screen would come after the ending so it's perfectly possible for Zitz to appear there.

If we are aiming to keep the same sets of individual arts of game complete for Pimple alone, Rash alone, and Pimple and Rash together instead of aiming for a group image to cover all the possible situations, then I still think the Battletoads Arcade artworks for the ending would be a good fit for that (even though I would still prefer to use specific Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork), as those can appear in the Battletoads Arcade ending either individually or together, though what @PyronsLair said is true, the Pimple one is already too close to the one that Pimple uses in the Selection screen, and both of them look a little cartoony compared to the graphic style of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork.

In the end, I think the best and less bothersome solution would be simply putting the same artworks of the Selection Screen also in the Game Complete screen.

[PyronsLair]

i'm very sad if you guys gonna discard the arcade artwork.. about satured colors is just because i had used the same colors present in the char select screen to consistence. Anyway i did another one.. think that we are using sms pallete here and i dosent have much options

https://i.imgur.com/Hc9lv2f.png

To the game over be faithfull we can use the art of player select, but the extra screen on the ending will be very nice.. think about that..

@maxim i can split the 3 toads in indepedent art later if it is aproved

2018-08-09 14:14 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

Zitz is considered rescued during the ending. That's why he appears entering the helicopter during the ending. The fact that he doesn't appear getting out the gate with the other two toads was lazyness. They didn't bother to make a set of Zitz sprites for that situation.

If you notice how the ending is done, it's basically a mirror match of the intro. In the intro, the three toads (with very small sprites) get out the Battlecopter and enter the Psicone building, and in the ending it's a mirror of that scene with them getting out the Psicone building and entering the helicopter. Why Zitz is not seen getting out the gate with Pimple and Rash? Because that's a mirror match of the scene in which Pimple and Rash enter the gate to rescue Zitz (who has already been kidnapped by the Pig of apocalypse) and they didn't bother to create a handful of Zitz sprites similar to the small ones of the Psicone building scene. Like I said, they went lazy with it. But yeah, he's considered rescued by then, and the Game Complete screen would come after the ending so it's perfectly possible for Zitz to appear there.

If we are aiming to keep the same sets of individual arts of game complete for Pimple alone, Rash alone, and Pimple and Rash together instead of aiming for a group image to cover all the possible situations, then I still think the Battletoads Arcade artworks for the ending would be a good fit for that (even though I would still prefer to use specific Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork), as those can appear in the Battletoads Arcade ending either individually or together, though what @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair said is true, the Pimple one is already too close to the one that Pimple uses in the Selection screen, and both of them look a little cartoony compared to the graphic style of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43914489-58cf6070-9c08-11e8-8bf8-9982bcd676c6.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43914526-6fcc9c84-9c08-11e8-9b60-e231c2616184.png

In the end, I think the best and less hassle solution would be simply putting the same artworks of the Selection Screen also in the Game Complete screen.

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[PyronsLair]

anyway i'm send your images converted Wesker

https://i.imgur.com/MOvmLT6.png https://i.imgur.com/VbSEQNq.png

2018-08-09 14:56 GMT-03:00 Gabriel Pyron gabpyron@gmail.com:

i'm very sad if you guys gonna discard the arcade artwork.. about satured colors is just because i had used the same colors present in the char select screen to consistence. Anyway i did another one.. think that we are using sms pallete here and i dosent have much options

https://i.imgur.com/Hc9lv2f.png

To the game over be faithfull we can use the art of player select, but the extra screen on the ending will be very nice.. think about that..

@maxim i can split the 3 toads in indepedent art later if it is aproved

2018-08-09 14:14 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

Zitz is considered rescued during the ending. That's why he appears entering the helicopter during the ending. The fact that he doesn't appear getting out the gate with the other two toads was lazyness. They didn't bother to make a set of Zitz sprites for that situation.

If you notice how the ending is done, it's basically a mirror match of the intro. In the intro, the three toads (with very small sprites) get out the Battlecopter and enter the Psicone building, and in the ending it's a mirror of that scene with them getting out the Psicone building and entering the helicopter. Why Zitz is not seen getting out the gate with Pimple and Rash? Because that's a mirror match of the scene in which Pimple and Rash enter the gate to rescue Zitz (who has already been kidnapped by the Pig of apocalypse) and they didn't bother to create a handful of Zitz sprites similar to the small ones of the Psicone building scene. Like I said, they went lazy with it. But yeah, he's considered rescued by then, and the Game Complete screen would come after the ending so it's perfectly possible for Zitz to appear there.

If we are aiming to keep the same sets of individual arts of game complete for Pimple alone, Rash alone, and Pimple and Rash together instead of aiming for a group image to cover all the possible situations, then I still think the Battletoads Arcade artworks for the ending would be a good fit for that (even though I would still prefer to use specific Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork), as those can appear in the Battletoads Arcade ending either individually or together, though what @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair said is true, the Pimple one is already too close to the one that Pimple uses in the Selection screen, and both of them look a little cartoony compared to the graphic style of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43914489-58cf6070-9c08-11e8-8bf8-9982bcd676c6.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43914526-6fcc9c84-9c08-11e8-9b60-e231c2616184.png

In the end, I think the best and less hassle solution would be simply putting the same artworks of the Selection Screen also in the Game Complete screen.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/maxim-zhao/battlemaniacs-restoration/issues/14#issuecomment-411831461, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AoBmJ8Kc00kJs9fZOyOebtmliE9IFIA-ks5uPG4EgaJpZM4Vi0mO .

[PyronsLair]

Also the 2 players together fits on 370 tiles limit

https://i.imgur.com/FqTSIBE.png

2018-08-09 15:20 GMT-03:00 Gabriel Pyron gabpyron@gmail.com:

anyway i'm send your images converted Wesker

https://i.imgur.com/MOvmLT6.png https://i.imgur.com/VbSEQNq.png

2018-08-09 14:56 GMT-03:00 Gabriel Pyron gabpyron@gmail.com:

i'm very sad if you guys gonna discard the arcade artwork.. about satured colors is just because i had used the same colors present in the char select screen to consistence. Anyway i did another one.. think that we are using sms pallete here and i dosent have much options

https://i.imgur.com/Hc9lv2f.png

To the game over be faithfull we can use the art of player select, but the extra screen on the ending will be very nice.. think about that..

@maxim i can split the 3 toads in indepedent art later if it is aproved

2018-08-09 14:14 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

Zitz is considered rescued during the ending. That's why he appears entering the helicopter during the ending. The fact that he doesn't appear getting out the gate with the other two toads was lazyness. They didn't bother to make a set of Zitz sprites for that situation.

If you notice how the ending is done, it's basically a mirror match of the intro. In the intro, the three toads (with very small sprites) get out the Battlecopter and enter the Psicone building, and in the ending it's a mirror of that scene with them getting out the Psicone building and entering the helicopter. Why Zitz is not seen getting out the gate with Pimple and Rash? Because that's a mirror match of the scene in which Pimple and Rash enter the gate to rescue Zitz (who has already been kidnapped by the Pig of apocalypse) and they didn't bother to create a handful of Zitz sprites similar to the small ones of the Psicone building scene. Like I said, they went lazy with it. But yeah, he's considered rescued by then, and the Game Complete screen would come after the ending so it's perfectly possible for Zitz to appear there.

If we are aiming to keep the same sets of individual arts of game complete for Pimple alone, Rash alone, and Pimple and Rash together instead of aiming for a group image to cover all the possible situations, then I still think the Battletoads Arcade artworks for the ending would be a good fit for that (even though I would still prefer to use specific Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork), as those can appear in the Battletoads Arcade ending either individually or together, though what @PyronsLair https://github.com/PyronsLair said is true, the Pimple one is already too close to the one that Pimple uses in the Selection screen, and both of them look a little cartoony compared to the graphic style of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artwork.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43914489-58cf6070-9c08-11e8-8bf8-9982bcd676c6.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43914526-6fcc9c84-9c08-11e8-9b60-e231c2616184.png

In the end, I think the best and less hassle solution would be simply putting the same artworks of the Selection Screen also in the Game Complete screen.

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/maxim-zhao/battlemaniacs-restoration/issues/14#issuecomment-411831461, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AoBmJ8Kc00kJs9fZOyOebtmliE9IFIA-ks5uPG4EgaJpZM4Vi0mO .

[AlWesker]

To tell you the truth, before using any of the Battletoads Arcade artworks (either the ones of the ending or the ones you like), I still prefer to reuse the ones of the Selection screen, as they are artworks from this game and not from another game. Getting the ones of the poster would be different story because those are artworks of the game (although not pixel artworks) but probably those will be very difficult to adapt and fit in and hence why I prefer to keep the Selection screen ones in that case. But looks like all of us have very different opinions regarding this so I don't know, it seems to be a tough issue.

The Game Over screen is a much more clear situation That one must stay the same as the SNES ones for consistency with the original SNES version and also to keep the homage to the NES version of Battletoads those arts intend. They are also perfect arts for the Game Over screens as reflected on the toads defeated faces. So it's not necessary to going back to what the Master System version did by placing the selection screen artworks there.

[PyronsLair]

I think very different in this sense, I'm not saying that's you are not worng.

But for me, the poster art is just a bad version of what you see on the game.. Everything is poorly done and looks like a bad kid cartoon.. You can notice that every draw is simplistic as he'll and the painter tried add deepness using color.. The logo is another crap.. So who did this is far from the game and probably it's outsourcing.. Different than the Ness version that is more faithfull

The ingame art doesn't follow these direction, everything us well shaded and use opaque colors and pass a more dark atmosphere.. Like the arcade game.. The arcade game the artist follow the same astetics of snes version also I think they are the same people. Everything is closer.. Even the characters sizes and etc..

So for me.. Everything related to snes cover is a bad use of resources

Em qui, 9 de ago de 2018 16:35, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

To tell you the truth, before using any of the Battletoads Arcade artworks (either the ones of the ending or the ones you like), I still prefer to reuse the ones of the Selection screen, as they are artworks from this game and not from another game. Getting the ones of the poster would be different story because those are artworks of the game (although not pixel artworks) but probably those will be very difficult to adapt and fit in and hence why I prefer to keep the Selection screen ones in that case. But looks like all of us have very different opinions regarding this so I don't know, it seems to be a tough issue.

The Game Over screen is a much more clear situation That one must stay the same as the SNES ones for consistency with the original SNES version and also to keep the homage to the NES version of Battletoads those arts intend. They are also perfect arts for the Game Over screens as reflected on the toads defeated faces. So it's not necessary to going back to what the Master System version did by placing the selection screen artworks there.

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[AlWesker]

The problem with using anything from Battletoads Arcade, as I see it.

Imagine for a moment that someone goes and attempts to do a homebrew conversion of Battletoads Arcade to the Master System. Sure, that's a crazy idea, and probably if someone ever attempts that it would rather be to a much powerful and better suited platform like the Mega Drive or the Sega Saturn. But try to imagine that situation for a moment. What artworks will he use for the homebrew conversion? That's right, the Battletoads Arcade ones. And so, we would have a Master System homebrew version of Battletoads Arcade with its rightfully own artworks together with our Battletoads in Battlemaniacs restoration project using the same artworks from Battletoads Arcade (either the ending ones or the other which appear after finishing a level, it's still the same) instead of the own Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artworks. I doubt that ever will happen but it's a way to picture why I'm not that convinced to reuse artworks from different games, even if they are from the same series.

And regarding the use of artwork of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster, it's true I actually got fond of that, but it seems it's not going to be a good idea either for a number of reasons, so I think the best option in the end will be reusing the selection screen ones for the game complete screen.

[PyronsLair]

You go far far way with this..

So lets stop to change or improve things because in the end is the same story.

So for last time, we gonna agree that is a carbon copy of snes in every way or manner.

Also the correct to game over is the continue character wall artwork. That it

Em qui, 9 de ago de 2018 17:14, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

The problem with using anything from Battletoads Arcade, as I see it.

Imagine for a moment that someone goes and attempts to do a homebrew conversion of Battletoads Arcade to the Master System. Sure, that's a crazy idea, and probably if someone ever attempts that it would rather be to a platform like the Mega Drive or the Sega Saturn. But try to imagine that situation for a moment. What artworks will he use for the homebrew conversion? That's right, the Battletoads Arcade ones. And so, we would have a Master System homebrew version of Battletoads Arcade with its rightfully own artworks together with our Battletoads in Battlemaniacs restoration project using the same artworks from Battletoads Arcade (either the ending ones or the other which appear after finishing a level, it's still the same) instead of the own Battletoads in Battlemaniacs artworks. I doubt that ever will happen but it's a way to picture why I'm not that convinced to reuse artworks from different games, even if they are from the same series.

And regarding the use of artwork of the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs poster, it's true I actually got fond of that, but it seems it's not going to be a good idea either for a number reason, so I think the best option in the end will be reusing the selection screen ones for the game complete screen.

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[AlWesker]

@maxim-zhao has been tagging some aspects to a possible v2 update. Maybe in that future scenario we can discuss which of the artworks could be replaced or change by others according to our wishes. That reminds me for example the discussion we had regarding which would be the appropiate game logo for the title screen. But as far as v1 concerns, yeah, probably it's best to stick with the SNES version as much as possible.

[maxim-zhao]

It remains the case that we have an extra screen - the game completed screen - in need of art, where it doesn't match the game select screen (because it depends on the game mode). Using the same art seems a shame. Could we use some frames from the SNES sprite sheet?

[AlWesker]

It's not easy because the SNES sprite sheet lacks more artworks aside from the ones we are already using. The rest is just sprites, and putting sprites may feel a little out of place since none of them seem to be winning poses or anything resembling that.

These are the only ones I could think as remotely similar since they are both grinning and also are unused animations in the Master System spritesheet.

But I'm not very convinced by the use of sprites in these screens. I would prefer art. And we can't really use art unless we either get external artwork of the game or grab some from another game of the series ike Battletoads Arcade like we were discussing already, so it's a tough issue.

[maxim-zhao]

Or we get something drawn by an artist. It can be hard to match styles, of course, but it seems achievable to me.

[AlWesker]

I'm not sure if that's really going to work. Maybe we'll have to reuse art from another game of the series after all, even if I don't like the idea.

In the meanwhile, I suppose we can use placeholders. I noticed you have done some, but using the old Master System art. Isn't more logical using the superior SNES equivalents until we can come up with something more original?

[maxim-zhao]

I was trying to be deliberately quick and dirty, I want my placeholders to be functional but not acceptable...

[PyronsLair]

I'm not good in drawing everything from the ground, i have to see a reference.. to follow

I think may be better you guys call a professional artist in my place, also hes can do everything that i did much better anyway

[AlWesker]

No @PyronsLair, you are doing great converting the in-game SNES artworks. No need for anyone else to take up your place doing that.

I'll try to handle something for this. In fact, I was actually thinking in these artworks.

Sure, they are from the infamous poster, but these are artworks from the game itself, they are individual artworks so they can appear standalone depending on the toad that completed the game or even both together, and they are actually instances from the game. The Rash one is him battling the first boss and the Pimple one is him riding Karnath, from the Snake Pit levels. I think they are the perfect matches for this kind of Game Complete screen because many games tend to show familiar scenes as a sort of flashback when they are completed. Plus, these artworks appear on the backcover of Battletoads in Battlemaniacs for the SNES and I have the original boxed game so I can take higher quality scans of them if needed (and without the pesky Nintendo seal in the case of the Pimple one from the poster).

They would, of course, need to be isolated from the background and converted to pixel artwork. There are actually tools for doing it that don't do a bad job, although most probably a pixel artist redoing the picture will be always better that using an automated process. I suppose I can look for anyone to especifically do that, while you @PyronsLair can continue with the in-game screens of the intro and ending as intended.

[AlWesker]

Well, I tried.

I also tried with a non dithered image but unfortunately the detail in Pimple artwork suffers a lot that way.

Either of these probably need a great deal of polishing and cleaning regarding some scattered pixels with random colors (for exmaple, in Pimple's eyes) which can be replaced for more appropiate colors, but oh well. Especially the Rash one doesn't look bad. What do you think?

[PyronsLair]

I think that I can do something.. If you sent me the base image I can try

Em sáb, 11 de ago de 2018 14:02, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

Well, I tried.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43994156-810ea726-9d98-11e8-827f-1d47ecf99aef.png

I also tried with a non dithered image but unfortunately the detail in Pimple artwork suffers a lot that way.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43994161-9da2502c-9d98-11e8-83d5-d8777d81ef64.png

Either of these probably need a great deal of polishing and cleaning regarding some scattered pixels with random colors (for exmaple, in Pimple's eyes) which can be replaced for more appropiate colors, but oh well. Especially the Rash one doesn't look bad. What do you think?

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[AlWesker]

Sure.

These images actually have transparent background, but it seems image upload turns them into black. If you need to, I can send you the images with transparent background through email.

[PyronsLair]

I finish Rash, i did it all on hand so give me alot of work for me is pretty cool so take a look

2018-08-11 15:41 GMT-03:00 Albert Wesker notifications@github.com:

Sure.

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43995016-e253a6e0-9da6-11e8-81ca-b940435a5ed8.png

[image: imagen] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/41370804/43995020-e7e7ab2e-9da6-11e8-9da5-520134646864.png

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[AlWesker]

Where is it?

[PyronsLair]

Sorry I was put it on email but I forgot that is not showing for you guys..

http://imgur.com/NTRGAHc

Em seg, 13 de ago de 2018 06:46, Albert Wesker notifications@github.com escreveu:

Where is it?

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[AlWesker]

It looks awesome! Great job!

What do you think @maxim-zhao? Can it be used?

[maxim-zhao]

I'll have to work on the screen layout to make it fit. What about when it's both toads?