Niantic changed API

[OlesZadorozhnyy]

Niantic changed API an hour ago. That is why application doesn't work

[pill0ws]

Pokemon go Wishlist

1. Scan radius equal to effective range of the tracker
2. removal of the tracker outright
3. Pokemon specific sounds when they spawn so I can ignore the rats and birds and enjoy nature until I come across something cool

These map scanners rose out of necessity. If they removed the need to struggle so hard to actually find things then there would be no reason to use them. Anyone whose used the apps knows that often theres a rare in someones backyard and you have to creep up real slowly to the house and very close to trigger it. Thats a big problem for this game as it practically encourages tresspassing and using the tracker youd be tresspassing in vain, finding nothing at all but knowing theres a damned Charmander nearby. The rares are often spread out, 70 meters at 10s updates encourages tresspassing even more and pretty much also encourages loitering and looking even more suspicious because you are trying to scan areas at the the circles border.

I'd love if there were no reason to use this kind of software at all, unfortunately the game was unplayable without it and even less playable at 10s per 70 meters (as well as whatever other security measures they put under the hood, I suspect jumping locations triggers something too. after I capture something If I make it too far down the road the avatar will jump locations and I tend to not find anything for a bit)

[bmeucci]

1. If it's set up for detecting mapping apps it will look for extremely regular distances between scan requests (machine-like behavior) so randomizing that will help. (I'd also make the exploration of an area a random walk instead of concentric rings)
2. It will probably also limit the speed between scan locations to 55-60 MPH so that will be another way to look legit. (IE If the distance between scan locations / time between scans > 60 MPH they will likely kick it out) 2b. Duplicate accounts in vastly different locations will be one of the first easy "tells" so that's a no-no. (and also conforms to the speed restriction rules they would put in place.) So anyone who uses the app must also use a dummy account, not their own.
3. If there are over 50-100 accounts making requests from the same IP address that would be another marker of a mapper app. You're going to have to spoof IPs or go client side. (unless that's already client side)
4. The final most annoying/difficult countermeasure: You'll need to make every dummy account attempt to grow its pokemon collection though occasionally hitting pokestops and attempting to capture monsters. This seems too large to handle programmatically and may be something you'll have to ask the users to maintain.

Those are what I'd put in to stop you. If anyone else has some ideas, lets put them out there. Solve all these "tells" and any countermeasures they put in specifically to block you should be circumvented. IE: you should be organic enough to look indistinguishable from a normal player.

[EternisRequiem]

Did the API thing get fixed and can be implemented for this now too?

[blonkpuff]

@bmeucci ^naw to a lot of this dude

1.) Niantic isn't going to scan for "extremely regular distances" between scan requests, especially since a lot of people go the same routes every day because that's their established pokemon stop route etc. If a human can theoretically do it, it's going to be allowed behavior.

2.) No to this too, they don't even soft ban regular account moving this fast because highway passengers in cars have pokemon go on all the time, even on bullet trains yo. They only prevent scans after a huge distance warp and even that's only a soft ban that lasts 30seconds-1hour which wouldn't break this app.

3.) Maybe, but most people are using this app in one instance from a computer and the other they log in later on their phone which inherits a new ip from their cell carrier. Also if you were a programmer you'd know that asking for a hackeresque system to spoof ip's just for pokemon in an application like this is a bit of a crazy request.

4.) Completely no. All my wat. Niantic isn't going to ban accounts that sit idle unless maybe a year passes and they are tidying their database and even then probably not. Banning accounts that don't "grow their pokemon collection" would be an insane enactment that would do little to stop mapping and much more to punish people who installed the game and simply haven't gotten around to hunting.

I get what you're saying about organic but the tells are described in the api, which are not that restrictive and which these guys have and can decipher well.

[bmeucci]

@blonkpuff

Unless you're a developer I'm really not interested in discussing it with you. You don't seem like one since you just ignored a shit ton of obvious stuff.

1) Humans don't move perfect distances in perfect times regularly 2) They aren't banning they are skipping supplying data which makes it fine for regular users 3) I am a programmer, but a bit of a dinosaur admittedly. But without looking, based upon the number of proxy sites readily available I'd be willing to bet the code to accomplish it is readily accessible 4) Wow, how on earth are you missing such obvious stuff? My god, I hope you're not a programmer. If an account moves around logged in and never tosses a single ball, accesses inventory etc etc for a month, that's a fucking bot, period. ...then again I guess there are code monkeys out there that never do a lick of design... still though, I can't think even a code monkey could miss this.

I'm not interested in arguing further so if you try to continue this line of argument you will get the last word to nobody caring. I'm providing useful ideas and you're failing to shoot them down with anything even remotely broadly considerate..

[obamaphone]

I stand with Niantic with this one: Kill the Poketrackers and incorporate a KICK ASS TRACKING SYSTEM into the app!

Wait... They did say they were going to add... Um, update...???

[blonkpuff]

bmeucci,

1.) You clearly missed the point. It doesn't matter if humans don't move that way naturally. They can, it's possible, and if niantic banned that type of motion they'd be insane. How do you not comprehend that? 2.) You're just swapping a term. They don't ban or skip supplying data to people moving that fast. That's common knowledge. 3.) You're definitely a dinosaur if you think writing spoofs/proxies into an application like this is a good idea. 4.) You missed the point again. Thank god you're not a developer because if you went to discuss the terms of autobans with fellow developers and said "Hey guys let's ban anyone who doesn't throw a ball after a few months and doesn't access inventory because it's clearly a bot" they would LAUGH YOU OUT OF THE BUILDING.

With galactically uninformed statements like yours (and getting all hostile over someone pointing that out)...I'll certainly agree that arguing with you is pointless.

[pill0ws]

1) The only thing I see as a possible "tell" that a login is an app is the reset to a specifically accurte coordinate every cycle. Common routes surely arent a good method to determine a bot, but f every interval of X the login requests the precisely same set of scan queries, that seems to be a little bit of a different story

[bmeucci]

Okay bud, keep pretending. Love them posers... So hilariously not getting it and just committing harder to their nonsense as though BS confidence will actually sway people who understand.... Management material right there. Mike Judge would be proud and I know higher-level management would buy into it too. Seeing people like that flood in to startups riding on top the accomplishments of the actual programmers is what got me out of the business. A decade of seeing that repeated over and over was more than enough.

"I think we need to synergize our action items and table the discussion. We need a more agile analysis of our customer facing experience. I think we can just pivot backend resources and bring in short-term out-of-house talent for a rework of critical systems and the in-house resources can integrate it in their down-time while the server-farm hides the transition!"

So anyhow, thanks for the actual work guys and I hope the strategies I mentioned help you anticipate their attempts to stymie you.

[blonkpuff]

@bmeucci

Straight up, I think you're embarrassed that your naive pseudologic got called out. :u It's cool that you want to contribute but I'm not a dick for calling attention to how uninformed your ideas on the subject are. I'm confident the devs here know better but it's still misinformation coming from a self proclaimed out-of-the-loop programmer, whereas I am very much not. I don't like confidently stated misinformation in the pursuit of trying to sound smart because people swallow that kind of crap up and everyone is worse off.

@pill0ws

I hate to keep on it but they aren't like to ban for that either. I'm not saying some of the theories put forth by you and bmeucci wouldn't catch bots, they totally would, but that's not the kind of thing programmers often design bans for in geo games like this. You have to think like you're in their board room. For every stationary coordinate ban that went down they'd get one bot and 10,000 (lazy but regular) users who log in from their seat every day because their seat is within range of a poke-stop. Auto bans when micro transactions are at stake are a warily considered thing in this type of mobile development because even the most blatant hackers can potentially put money into the game. There are what...9.5 million active users daily on PokeGo? They already shut down pokevision (who were asked, not api blocked.) So now they only have to worry about a few thousand people technically inclined enough to go get a google maps api key. No it's not hard, but it's enough to dissuade a lot of people who simply used poke vision.

Point is, the moment Niantic puts something in that's going to catch some hackers but could potentially outst thousands of legitimate players they've got problems. They aren't going to do something that can threaten an income stream on that level to battle an app like this with its limited user base. (This app isn't even directly threatening pokecoins and item quantity with sql injections, etc.) I've done facebook app development almost since its inception. Facebook changes their api like a new dad changes diapers and it breaks apps almost every time. That's almost assuredly what's happening here. The devs just need time to reconfigure.

Just an FYI, in this industry Autobans are done less by user behavior and way more by things like a third party application's digital signature/imprint/metadata. They will always ban application clues like that over local profile behavior. I'm not saying some behavioral bans won't happen, but when they do implement those they are the type that are all the way obvious, like warping from New York to California in 30 minutes. And again since money is at stake, even that's only a hour ban.

[pill0ws]

Ive been suggesting an alternate pattern to scanning for some time now (I suck at programming, I know enough to get a B in an introductory college class about 5 years ago, thats about it, otherwise I'd of tried doing this myself already). Mainly because the spawn points are all static, after scanning the area so many times you notice that pokemon are always in nearly the exact same spots . More importantly theres just areas that literally never have any at all. So scanning these areas, especially at the 10s interval, is a complete waste of resources. Whether they are triggered by a repeated pattern or not, the pattern itself is wasteful of time now that update rates are set to 10s

[blonkpuff]

@pill0ws

That'd be wild but there would need to be one hell of an algorithm going on in Poke Go Live Map that detects and then registers all those static spawn points all over the world. If they aren't put forth via the api it's going to have to be processed client side which is going to be craaazy. I think your idea would be best done in a few chosen points like central park when everyone seems to be spoofing. That way (if the points actually are static) the app could come with a preknown list of coordinates to scan in that area which would cut down scan times like you're suggesting. But again, that might leave an application footprint like I was saying and having a log of all the spawnpoints everywhere is a tall order. Cool thinking tho~

[RvdHNL]

From what i read on reddit, it will be back to 5secs. They seem to be using a hash for encrypting the pokemon. Some apps still can be used to scan your inventory and stuff, so only mapping issues seem to remain.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemongodev/comments/4w0jum/all_ptcgoogle_logins_failing_from_api/d634g5s

[pill0ws]

@blonkpuff I mentioned being a complete noob in programming but I presonally dont need to scan all over the world. Couldnt there just be a log of every discovered pokemons coordinates, time/date that populated from use of the app? You'd store all that kind of stuff client side anyways.

Additionally: I am curious if the only data being sent back from these scans is the location and despawn timer of pokemon. There are some other variables I have noticed simply playing the game. Orientation being one of them, which direction is the pokemon facing? I believe they respawn later in that direction. Bbefore they killed the maps, I had been able to predict when and where (using a decent sized radius) that the next Snorlax spawn would occur several times. He is so common in my area that patterns started to emerge from logging his appearences. Despawn timers often shared an offset of 30min, he spawned for 15 at the time and the despawn timers for the ones I "tracked or followed" were always in 30min chunks. So I theorized that they despawn for the same duration as they spawn and they respawn in the direction they were oriented toward when spawned. This falls in line with how I have succesfully made use of the in game tracker. Imagine that there are tracks for these invisible critters. Imagine that the tracker points in the direction of those tracks relative to your avatars orientation when you cross them. I've had fairly regular success with this approach but some inconsistencies still occur. However, just assume this is all true for one second, where would those tracks be coming from? I was literally just about to go out and test all of this the night Niantic swung their dongers at the the map scanners, so I cant say it is certain. however the data i collected from the app suggests that there isnt magically 20+ Snorlax appearing in my area every day, that they appear either the west, east or northeast edges of town and after they disappear, they appear again in those general directions (as if Snorlax is actually traveling somewhere via hoping spawn points). I cant prove any of these other things yet but if the scanning app can register the coords for when the nearby tracker updates and what it updates as, I think its possible to simply triangulate directly onto the spawn points.

When the scanners were functional, I knew Niantic would destroy them, so I sat at home and played with them more than the game itself attempting to learn as much as possible so I wouldnt really need the scanner (still need tracking to work though). I logged over 50 Snorlax sightings coords and tmes and started to do dates right at the end. I also started logging literally everything interesting I could find so that i could go back and decipher wtf these programmers did to get Pokemon to spawn in the real world (I mean as good as a complete noob to programming like myself can, if anyones interested I could share the data, seems very ingrained with google map data)

[EternisRequiem]

@RvdHNL Actually, if you look to see where that was FIRST posted, that was several days ago, before this change, and when they first implemented the 5s scan. (Though I heard there was some work done since they were supporting two versions of the game simultaneously or something? Maybe that's the case?)

[RvdHNL]

Found this:

SUMMARY API stopped accepting requests from any sources which are not the actual client. The API needs a value "unknown 6", this value was already in the API in previous versions, but now the server is validating it. Only the actual client can create a valid "unknown6". We dont actually 100% know that it is indeed "unknown6" that is being validated, but it would make sense since its a big piece of data which isnt recreateable. It is not as easy as locating where any updates made changes because the unknown6 was already being calculated and sent in previous versions but not validated by the server. It doesnt really matter exactly what values go into the unknown6. CRACKING/bruteforcing the code is impossible because the key alone wouldnt do it. We need to get to the piece of code that makes "unknown6". The key and the way to calculate unknown6 is somewhere within the code and were trying to find it. We are trying to locate where the app calculates unknown6 in order to be able to recreate out own valid unknown6's. If we do that we have a working API again. This is hard because parts of the code are not easily accessible. We need people that can decompile and document parts of the code! Please keep the talking only about the API, no personal lives, let the programmers do their job. Again were not looking for theories on how unknown6 is created, what values go in it. We will 99% sure only get a working API if we locate and understand the code creating unknown6. Latest so: http://www.speedyshare.com/F2F7J/libNianticLabsPlugin.so#

[blonkpuff]

@pill0ws

You personally don't need to scan all over the world, no, but think from the perspective of the app. It would have to scan wherever the current user is and wherever the current user travels and start building its guess on where pokemon always spawn. That would be something it has to work out over several scans of the area.

Right now the app probably just takes in data from the pokego servers and displays it to you along with time remaining, if it's lured, etc. But you're now asking it to store the location of every pokemon it finds in memory and compare that to the future spawns it finds to the database it's already compiled and further decide when they intersect enough that it becomes a defined spawn point. Then it has to adjust its scans to only hit those areas. That procedure would apply to everyone using that app and all I mean is when you consider adding all that functionality to an app that's currently just doing call/display and a bit of filtering...that's a lot to ask of the devs!

I haven't picked through the api myself to know what it's all delivering. I'm sure the devs could come up with a prediction algorithm given enough time if they knew enough. In such a case it's probable the that the clues you're putting together would very much help such an algorithm function isolate spawnpoints, (just like the Turing machine used "Hail Hitler" as a fixed key to decipher the rest of the axis power messages in WWII when they found out it was included at the end of every transmission!)

But yeah, I guess I'm saying is it worth it for the devs to program when they aren't getting paid and when a complicated predict feature might not only take a ton of time but also might make itself more suspicious?

Edit: @RvdHNL

Well there you go, devs know what to seek out already and that's a good sign. Niantic made an api change that authenticates the actual app so they just need to reverse engineer unknown6 and mimic it.

[pill0ws]

@blonkpuff Well I wasnt suggesting a predict feature, merely suggesting if orientation was available information that it could be valuable. It would only ever be available though once a pokemon had been revealed by the scanner. I certainly am not suggesting new features, just throwing out ideas from the observation I made playing with the scanner for hours. I am going to stop talking though, these guys seem to be hard at work and I dont want to create anymore noise. If anyone is interested I could organize all the info I saved, it was just copypasta from the Apps feedback but includes coords and despawn times for lots of things and a ton of Snorlax

[EternisRequiem]

So... why does allegedly https://map.goradar.io/ work? I can't get it to change location for the life of me, however :P haha But it's something people can use in the interim. It's crowdsourced by people with the ios app apparently?

[Josp1337]

https://map.goradar.io/ is fake and is not accurate !

[EternisRequiem]

Several people on reddit stated that it was working for them (and it is because of the crowdsourced nature of it)

[EternisRequiem]

Looks like someone got it?!

[blonkpuff]

@EternisRequiem

It (allegedly) works because Niantic can't do anything to block that. As I understand it it works by people reporting pokemon they find to a 3rd party site, no? That can't be regulated by their app. Trade off would be crappy reliability and no real sense for despawn times.

[EternisRequiem]

@blonkpuff It's people using PokemonGo++, so an edited app that I assume takes data they're seeing and then sends it off, so it ends up being reliable and with proper respawn timers, allegedly. (This is what people keep reporting)

[blonkpuff]

^Ah interesting, I wonder if Niantic is onto that yet. As you said though the location marker seems stuck?

[ShiroTora]

so did they fix it ? or is there still no app/prog that can track ?

[obamaphone]

Well, I am a 1337 h4x0r and I say FUCK NIANTIC!

[Sht12]

Noobie Question: Do i have to download a new version of the PoGo Map application whenever there is an update? or Is there just an update file..

[ShiroTora]

i know how you feel, i finay started going outside with my bike to catch pokemon arround me in a radiius of 10km, right now im back locked up in my room thinking what to do , these scanners where rly helpfull, without a tracker it is worthless to spot rare pokemon unless you sit all day with a pokestop with lure, but thats same as sitting in my room in front of my laptop waiting for a solution, so i can go outside again, i never was an outsider, i always played lots online games on laptop , right now this pokemon go stuff is going trough my head , i cant even focus in the online games i normaly play

[ShiroTora]

don't know if you readed, -=niantic encrypted the api=-, so all scanners/maps won't work for time being maby never again, if they use this system that chhange api key everytime, i play since a week so if i quit i won't lose much, it was a great experiance, but i feel bad for the players that play since start of pokemon go

[MarioLaframboise]

My guess is Unknown generation must call function to get the UDID, flash ID, time, position, etc from the device. Might be a good starting point to look inside the binaries.

[sushab]

@ ShiroTora ues the game is totally boring like this. The radar apps, made the 'hardcore' scene interesting; knowing spawn times, spawn locations, getting there on time, while competing, in the real world. Now it just feels like the only ALLOWED way of playing is casual/noob/child play.

Niantec servers around the world should have no problem taking the loads (maybe not the first week ok launch), it almost feels like NIANTEC is seriously expecting to have complete monopoly of the product and related/periferal services, which these days is highly unrealistic and seems to suggest that Niantec are more administrators than programmers which doesn't bode well for the future in terms of the so needed new game modes and new content.

[muntedfish]

What kills me is my pokedex is at 140. I just need a porygon and Chansey! I have seen several Chansey but miss took them for Clifable grr. Scanner has shown Chansey several times... just need Porygon then done after that! Now its just up to bling luck...

[ShiroTora]

well i am on 107/151 pokemon, i rly want to get more , also a question since i dont play that long yet, just a week, should i lvl the pokemon 1st before evolution or can i direct evolve them without any side effects ?

[lazyTrainer]

Where is the dev thread? I'd like to follow it, not people comparing the size of their poke dicks.

[HuXu77]

@lazyTrainer https://github.com/AeonLucid/POGOProtos/issues/131

[pcecere]

@muntedfish nobody here cares about your Porygon.

[starstremr]

what i don't understand why would niantic ask pokevision and others to stop there sites if there just going to do what they did with the mapping apps and programs?

[pill0ws]

Not sure I get that question, Are you asking why Niantic would want to remove a site that offers a service that they themself intend on offering? or are you asking why would they bother contacting Pokevision when they planned on breaking everything anyways? I'd say the answer to the first question is pretty obvious. The second question, because Pokevision was HUGE in no time at all. When and if workarounds for their security measures arise, it would easily explode onto the scene with a name that is already well known. By asking Pokevision to stop, they can be sure that the next time this happens they will only have to deal with a 10CP Squirtle and not a 3kCP Blastoise. Sure the Squirtle would evolve quickly, but the Blastoise is already a contender. It's easier to just revive the Blastoise than evolve another, they want that advantage

[starstremr]

ok gotcha makes sense. ty

[joshuacane]

I've been using Go Radar for the past few days and it seems reliable enough. My only issue is that it doesn't always show the pokémon that appear on my in app radar. The location of pokémon that do appear on Go Radar are pretty accurate in both time and location. I've managed to catch enough bulbasaurs for a venusaur today because of the app. As good as it is, it's still not as good as this app.

[Shogunz1]

Which app? I type in Go Radar and it gives me a million different ones lol.

[mchristopher]

I'm closing this as the latest fix addresses the issue.