Galacticraft 3 is hard to stand on space station

[LividPumpkin]

bad thing it's very hard to stand on a space station after fixing launch issue this is the second space station bug what can i do ? is this a bug ?

[JakXLT]

I don't think it's a bug. I think micdoodle tried to make space station gravity more realistic, which is fine, but ended up making space stations insanely irritating to even go to.

I don't even personally think the gravity should be changed back, but an artificial gravity machine is even more necessary now.

Cannot even fly properly though. I won't be able to make my space station.

[dwaggner]

I sure do hope mic adds a gravity bubble distributer and a gravity sealer :D That'd be amazing

[radfast]

Most of this is intended. There is a problem with jumping + landing right now, we'll look at fixing that.

If you get your feet off from the station you can move with WASD and Jump and Sneak, it changes direction slowly so you have to hold down the keys and be patient - you're in freefall!

[JakXLT]

@radfast I like the gravity as is I just don't think it's even remotely playable without some sort of artificial gravity machine.

[Douglas-Fresh]

So it seems like you can't move up or down unless adjacent to some sort of block. I'm guessing this is based on the idea that you need something to "place your hand against" and push off of? Either way I think it is a fairly good system for such a low gravity situation.

[radfast]

@Douglas-Fresh good call, that's exactly it - so if you are free-falling, you will come to a halt if you come within approximately arm's length of any structure.

Like I say, there are two known issues at the moment, which we're looking at fixing:

1. Jumping (or other types of pushing off) is not working. It's intended that when you jump, you will start moving up and keep going forever (until you hit a block).
2. Landing - meaning if you are moving downwards and you hit a block with your feet - is not working, it's intended you should be able to walk normally after you land on a block. If you like, you can imagine the player has velcro shoes or magnetic boots, depending on whether your golden age of scifi is from the 1970s or the 1950s... ! (and no we will not be adding magnetic boots into the game any time soon, so just imagine it for now please!)

Intended controls in freefall:

• W / S : a small boost forward or backwards, like using a jetpack but you don't have a jetpack, micdoodle8 and me decided what is happening here is you can use your oxygen gear to make a small jet for emergency use - we had to do something otherwise it would be totally unplayable
• A / D : a small temporary sideways movement, again this is just to make things playable, the physics isn't accurate (as you don't slow down in space) so don't use this if you are role-playing for accuracy
• Space / Sneak : it's like W / S but in the upwards or downwards direction; this is a very low impulse movement but if you hold the button down a long time, you can build up quite a big speed

For the future we do probably plan to have a jetpack which will have the same movement controls but everything will be faster.

You can also try Creative mode in space for an idea of what that might be like - we implemented a kind of freefall in Creative mode as well, some people may find that more playable as the movement is a lot easier.

It would be great if someone could start to put this info on the Wiki, though you might want to wait until we get the jumping and landing perfected first.

---

One thing I'm also looking into is whether we can tilt the player model, I mean totally turn your body over and around in 360 degrees - in which case Jump / Sneak will be used to fire the jets and W / D will change your body angle. We can code this but not sure yet whether it will be playable, it might make people dizzy or just like 'wtf' as everyone is so used to the player always being vertical in Minecraft. So don't be surprised if this doesn't make it into the game.

[Douglas-Fresh]

I love the idea of having to "grab" blocks in order to move and that you keep going until you hit something (I guess Micdoodle8 really DID get inspired by Gravity). Just the slight bugginess to fix, but I really like the system.

I'd be happy to add it to the wiki, I just want to be very familiar with it first and wait to see what tweaks you guys may need to make.

[radfast]

umm, it was me that coded the freefall and gravity stuff (with micdoodle8's agreement), and I've been so busy coding I still haven't actually seen Gravity! Or any of this year's sci-fi movies, looks like there's loads I'll really enjoy.

For the wiki we'll also need a good explanation of the Tier 2 power (gives a 30-50% speed buff to machines if used correctly) and the gas systems. If you're using NEI, we made a good graphical explanation of how to use the Gas Liquefier and the Methane Synthesizer, but try playing around with them yourself, they have quite a few functions. Hints: try Atmospheric Valve in all the slots. Try to make some liquid nitrogen and then right click on water with it :) Some more really fun uses for these liquid gases will be coming, this week I hope.

[Douglas-Fresh]

Oh haha, well never mind then. I haven't seen it myself either, I just remember him referencing it in a tweet some time ago and figured the new system was his doing because of it. I suppose it's been known for a long time already that space behaves like that, regardless of a new movie showing us so well done.

Looks like I've got a lot to play with and add to the wiki...that makes me happy :D

[JakXLT]

@radfast "You can also try Creative mode in space for an idea of what that might be like - we implemented a kind of freefall in Creative mode as well, some people may find that more playable as the movement is a lot easier."

Just need to interject here. The answer is no. In fact in creative it's far worse. The acceleration is insane, I lost control and lost my space station entirely, drifting out into empty space.

[Douglas-Fresh]

I know you CAN move very fast, but I think it's mostly a matter of getting used to the new controls. You only need to briefly hold any direction (of not only tap the key). I sometimes slightly exceed the speed I intended, but I'm getting used to it and I think it's a cool feature adding the realism of inertia in space.

[JakXLT]

That's fine in survival, in survival I love that concept actually. Adds more realism and complications to it which is almost always a good a thing.

I think this is horrible in creative. I think while in creative it should switch back to the old gravity.

I also don't feel like this gravity situation is livable. It's a really cool idea but when you actually have your space station built and sealed it's still a chore to move around. My suggestion to make this better is an item and slot for it should be added for oxygen sealers and bubble dist. called Pressurizer. This item would double the consumption of the device but gives the sealed room air pressure to simulate low gravity, slightly weaker than on mars.

[Douglas-Fresh]

Well radfast did say he is still working on some improvements so I imagine it will be more livable once your feet are planted.

With that in mind, life on a space station isn't exactly convenient and to me this system seems to simulate that environment pretty well. And pressurizing the environment wouldn't affect gravity. But I understand what your getting at.

[JakXLT]

I realize it wouldn't affect gravity in real life, I just thought it was a more realistic explanation and easier to implement than what I was originally going to type out.

[EzerArch]

One thing I'm also looking into is whether we can tilt the player model [...]

I foresee thousands of players crying blood and screaming "y u bork {insert-a-mod-that-modifies-player-model-here-e.g.-MPS-Mek-MPM-SM}". OpenBlocks mod can rotate the player model vertically to align with the air-glider.

Relevant: http://forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?threads/jetpacks.1835/page-2#post-33326

[JakXLT]

@radfast "One thing I'm also looking into is whether we can tilt the player model, I mean totally turn your body over and around in 360 degrees - in which case Jump / Sneak will be used to fire the jets and W / D will change your body angle. We can code this but not sure yet whether it will be playable, it might make people dizzy or just like 'wtf' as everyone is so used to the player always being vertical in Minecraft. So don't be surprised if this doesn't make it into the game."

Answer here is yes, yes and yes. It will be playable, it will be disorienting and people will go 'wtf'. Install Star Miner for 1.6.4 to experience what it will be like.

[radfast]

I'm familiar with Star Miner, I think it's a fun mod and a great idea though perhaps ultimately just a gimmick: it looks good on YouTube videos and all but you wouldn't want to spend all day upside down.

(One of) our intentions with Galacticraft is to get players interested in space, interested in finding out more about the solar system & space exploration and all that fun stuff. micdoodle8 said once that if it makes one person get interested in space, that makes him happy.

I feel that as part of that, you should be able to have a realistic in-game experience of being in space (given the limitations of it being a game and voxel-based). So the rocket launch should be awesome and hit you in the guts. There should be a real feeling of different gravity on the Moon. It should feel dangerous being in space, like you might experience a nasty death if you make a hole in the wall or run out of power or oxygen.

The freefall in space stations is an extension of that. Personally, I think it's awesome: when I'm playing it now I can easily suspend disbelief and have the feeling of floating around in space. But, the things you guys have spotted in this issue report are current issues, that's for sure.

• Because the jumping and landing are not working correctly and smoothly, it makes it hard to do day-to-day tasks like actually build, and it feels buggy and unfinished overall
• I agree the acceleration in Creative mode is too much, you can lose your space station if you're not careful (especially if it's also spinning so the coordinates are all wacky)

We'll work on tweaking, smoothing and balancing these things this week, your feedback is very helpful.

At this point I'm not planning on removing this system and going back to a low gravity regular Minecraft dimension like in GC2. I think people will get used to the new system and when these specific issues are fixed, nobody will hate it. If I'm wrong and millions of voices suddenly cry out in terror, then we can maybe look at having a config value which switches this off and goes back to the GC2 system, though that could operate unfairly on multiplayer servers (like if some players have the freefall on and some have it off) so will need to think about that carefully.

[radfast]

I foresee thousands of players crying blood and screaming "y u bork {insert-a-mod-that-modifies-player-model-here-e.g.-MPS-Mek-MPM-SM}".

Except for MMPS, compatibility with other mods which alter the player model is low on my list of priorities. It's almost asking the impossible, because in Galacticraft we are also altering the player model with our oxygen tanks, and a lot of smaller things which most people probably don't notice, but would notice if we didn't do them (so if you hold a rocket or certain other large items, your arm position changes; if you're bounding on the moon, your limbs move slowly in keeping with that movement; if you're freefalling, your limbs don't move at all; if you're in a rocket, your arms stay down by your sides). But in fact my guess is quite a lot of the other mods will probably be ok, as we will not actually be changing the player model again, just rotating it.

[JakXLT]

@radfast Just to clarify, I LOVE the new gravity concept, and only want the old gravity back while in creative mode.

With this new gravity, we will NEED tethers. Even with less acceleration, gonna be pretty easy to fly off into space and lose your space station.

[radfast]

:)

micdoodle8 and I are thinking about different options for that - here's what I'm thinking about

• Tethers, these are a popular suggestion on the forum and micdoodle8 likes them
• An emergency beacon which you can place on your space station and activate if you get too far away (or maybe it activates automatically): when the beacon activates the player gets automatically rotated to face the beacon at all times, so just pressing W will bring you home eventually, however far away you were
• Forced re-spawning (without any inventory or experience loss) if you drift more than let's say 500 blocks away from the space station horizontally - kind of like how you die if you fall into the void, but without the death part - this is a good plan because the spin system will become very messed up if you get too far away from the space station like many thousands of blocks away, for complicated chunk-loading reasons (I've actually only tested it up to 1200 blocks away, so if someone wants to spend a boring 30 minutes or so testing what happens if you get much further out from a spinning station, that would be great)

Two issues I foresee with this are: some players might want to build a space station larger than 1000 x 1000 blocks (I don't think that's very likely in normal play, but maybe someone will use WorldEdit to make a giant spinning wheel type of space station) - and some players on the more aggressive PVP servers (iDreams :) ) like to destroy the original space station and build a space base 10,000 blocks out instead so nobody can possibly find it - l know a group of guys (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI4pckWbo6U) who literally spent 4-5 hours building a 'bridge' out to be able to build 10,000 blocks out and destroying it behind them. It might be for the best if we disallow that behaviour in GC3 though. Our intention is that the space station is supposed to be built around the original blue spacestation block at (0, 65, 0) and players shouldn't normally destroy it unless maybe making an airlock there or something.

• A realistic mode where nothing saves you (unless you have a buddy nearby with a jetpack), so you're gonna have to either keep drifting until you run out of oxygen, or take off your oxygen gear to speed up the process, or maybe if you are descending you will eventually drop down to less than y=32 so you fall back to the Overworld and have to build a new Tier 1 rocket.

This option would involve switching off the existing WASD controls for players in freefall, or at least disabling them when you run out of oxygen. That'll probably give us a whole bunch of complaints, so if we do this I can see it will have to be a config option.

In the short term, I think it's likely to be a combination of the beacon and the forced re-spawning, making the hard limit in the forced re-spawning quite a bit larger than 500 blocks. Please do make suggestions for what you think the size will be of the largest spacestation anyone might want to build.

[JakXLT]

Yeah the forced respawning might cause issues with the star wars based space stations I'm working on. I will not rest until I see a rotating death star.

[radfast]

ok, so when you're done with it tell me how big it is, with enough space on the outside of it so people can fly around it and enjoy your creation.

[JakXLT]

Will do but this is rather extensive and may take me awhile. I also had to build it in the asteroid belt because of space station gravity. Well at least it'll be harder for the rebels to find it.

[radfast]

Note: you do not have to build a spinning space station centered on the blue block.

If you build a space station centered on some other point, like (200, 80, -360), when you add the spin thrusters to it Galacticraft will figure out that is the center and spin the whole thing around that center instead. It's smart like that. So you can make a build where people who travel to the space station will spawn at (0, 65, 0) which can be an airlock or dock or something on the edge of the space station, or it could even be in freefall outside of your spacestation. Try it and see.

Note: Galacticraft figures out where the center of your spacestation is by checking all the blocks which are connected to your spin thrusters. So if your spacestation is not properly connected up, parts of it are separate, that will confuse Galacticraft and the center of spin will be wrong. If that happens, just connect it up properly, and break + replace the spin thrusters and it should be recalculated.

Again if that info could make it's way onto the Wiki some time, would be great.

[Douglas-Fresh]

" I feel that as part of that, you should be able to have a realistic in-game experience of being in space (given the limitations of it being a game and voxel-based). So the rocket launch should be awesome and hit you in the guts. There should be a real feeling of different gravity on the Moon. It should feel dangerous being in space, like you might experience a nasty death if you make a hole in the wall or run out of power or oxygen."

Well said. I've always gotten a sense of that which is part (most) of what makes me love Galacticraft. I don't like building to where it basically make a space station as safe as the Overworld. What's the point? I want it to feel like life in space.

And looks like it's time for me to start another list for wiki content to add.

[JakXLT]

When this does get improved a fair bit, shouldn't the same gravity be in the asteroid belt? Just wondering.

[Douglas-Fresh]

A tether is a rope or cable that keeps two objects from separating or moving too far apart from each other. It's basically a safety harness so you can't float too far away and out of reach of your space station in this instance.

[EzerArch]

Please, as @radfast said, suggestions and discussions on ideas must be preferably done on the suggestion forum: http://forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?forums/suggestions.7/

Specifically:

• Jetpack: http://forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?threads/jetpacks.1835/
• Tethers: http://forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?threads/tether-safety-harness.2725/
• Zero gravity on space stations: http://forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?threads/zero-gravity-in-space.3386/

[IntheReeds]

@JakXLT You dont need starminer Galaticraft is the best mod out there

[JakXLT]

@AstronaughtPreston Why not both?

[Twylite-Fang]

[quote from JakXLT] "When this does get improved a fair bit, shouldn't the same gravity be in the asteroid belt? Just wondering."

Well actually it would simply have to be a very slight increase to the gravity on space stations in certain areas; for instance, you could simply drift out and into one of the smallest asteroids (the one block ones), and end up simply flying up forever if you jump on one, but with a full asteroid, you would jump up relatively high, but end up slowly falling back to the asteroid below.

[Douglas-Fresh]

Hey @radfast, I know there is work to be done with the gravity, but someone recently "suggested" that stairs work like normal on space stations (forum.micdoodle8.com/index.php?threads/movement-in-space-stations.4394/). I'm guessing it's because like you said you don't actually walk like normal, but just wanted to bring it to your attention in case it needs further consideration.

[JakXLT]

@Twylite-Fang Maybe the asteroid blocks could be made to detect adjacent asteroid blocks and use that to determine the gravity.

@radfast The station is about 250 blocks with a ~150 wide star ship docked next to it. I think 500 blocks would make a good default but should have an option in the config.

[radfast]

Good news, space station landing and jumping are now working "as intended" in version 3.0.0.155. Get it here: http://ci.micdoodle8.com/job/Galacticraft-1.7/155/

Sorry about the earlier bugs.

We have not yet implemented the fancier ideas discussed in this thread (including rotating the player model in freefall) but I hope these will be features added to GC3 as time goes on.

Closing this issue, as the current problems have been fixed.

[gustavowizard]

I like what you did with space station gravity man, pretty realistc, but is it supose to be ON on creative mod too? its kinda strange :dancer:

[spacebuilder2020]

I love the realisticness, but I often get stuck in a block above myself and can't get down.

[EzerArch]

@spacebuilder2020, like this? #1841